J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[Deino]

Are you talking about this? Posted on cjdby?

No kidding it really is tiny.

I'm not even sure what it's meant to be? A serial number? I see 2013 but for all I know it could be a captcha

Lol I love the follow up comments.
"I need a microscope"
"I need the hubble space telescope to look"

Yes, very small indeed, but if You remember this (see attached below) was the very first clear image on no. '2012' and even more interesting is the date: 15. July !!! ... so tomorrow maybe

PS: I just looked back a bit: first image showing '2012' appeared on 10. July, the first taxi test was on 14. July and the very first Image at all showing '2012' appeared on 20. June !

 

[Franklin]

Does anyone know what kind of coating system the new J-20 prototypes use. Is it the old fashion RAM paint coating or are they using the more durable system of the F-35 Lightning II ? The F-35 system is more costly to buy but will be cheaper in the planes life cycle.

 

[Blitzo]

Does anyone know what kind of coating system the new J-20 prototypes use. Is it the old fashion RAM paint coating or are they using the more durable system of the F-35 Lightning II ? The F-35 system is more costly to buy but will be cheaper in the planes life cycle.

I doubt we will ever know that for certain.

And of course, later batches of J-20 may use more advanced RAM than earlier batches, it's not going to be fixed.

 

[Ultra]

I doubt we will ever know that for certain.
And of course, later batches of J-20 may use more advanced RAM than earlier batches, it's not going to be fixed.

There was a news that someone got caught for trying to smuggle ultra high strength aerospace-grade carbon-fiber to China recently. From all the literatures I have read (and many that indicate) the F-35 use "baked-in stealth" - which indicate it is a specially impregnated carbon-fiber-reinforced polymer airframe. Combined, you get a picture that J-20 is probably not only just using RAM paint for stealth, but it is also using F-35's "baked-in stealth".

"The case involves a 40-year-old Chinese man named Ming Suan Zhang. On Wednesday, Zhang was charged in federal court in the Eastern District of New York with “attempting to illegally export aerospace-grade carbon fiber” from the U.S. to China"

"Aerospace-grade carbon fiber isn’t just simple plastic. It’s a specialized — and expensive — polymer used in nuclear plants and to build the fuselages of military aircraft like the F-22 Raptor stealth fighter. $4 million would buy about two tons’ worth of M60JB carbon fiber."

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What this reveals is that, the Chinese know exactly what they needed to build a stealth aircraft that is comparable in stealth performance to the F-22 or F-35 - not as some western analysts derisively called it "just a copycat that looks like a stealth fighter with just merely a RAM coat on top".

The take away from this is that at least the Chinese cannot produce the same type of carbon fiber of comparable quality ... at least not yet. They have to import/smuggle. From what I read and understand - carbon fiber strength depends on number of 'strands" that you can pack in a set volume - low quality carbon fiber will have far fewer strands than aerospace-grade carbon-fiber which would have upto millions of strands. It also depends on how you weave the fiber strands.

 

[broadsword]

You last sentence

Combined, you get a picture that J-20 is probably not only just using RAM paint for stealth, but it is also using F-35's "baked-in stealth".

does not correlate logically with the first.

There was a news that someone got caught for trying to smuggle ultra high strength carbon-fiber-reinforced polymer to China recently.

 

[Ultra]

You last sentence



does not correlate logically with the first.

What's not correlating?

Someone was indeed got caught for smuggling the aerospace-grade carbon-fiber - it doesn't mean China can't produce carbon fiber, it just meant they probably can't produce one of same comparable quality that the american used on F-22 and F-35. But the news indicate they KNOW exactly what type and which one they need, which means it will only be matter of time before they figure how to produce them.

 

[broadsword]

What's not correlating?

Someone was indeed got caught for smuggling the aerospace-grade carbon-fiber - it doesn't mean China can't produce carbon fiber, it just meant they probably can't produce one of same comparable quality that the american used on F-22 and F-35. But the news indicate they KNOW exactly what type and which one they need, which means it will only be matter of time before they figure how to produce them.

If China knew what RAM to use, what has that got to do with the theft? Proof of theft does not mean the J-20 has any relation to it.

 

[delft]

What's not correlating?

Someone was indeed got caught for smuggling the aerospace-grade carbon-fiber - it doesn't mean China can't produce carbon fiber, it just meant they probably can't produce one of same comparable quality that the american used on F-22 and F-35. But the news indicate they KNOW exactly what type and which one they need, which means it will only be matter of time before they figure how to produce them.

It will be difficult/impossible to derive the production methods from the carbon fiber product. It might be useful to test the US product to get an impression of its effectiveness but that will not necessarily improve the Chinese aircraft production. This smuggling attempt doesn't even prove that Chinese production methods are inferior. We just don't know.

 

[Ultra]

If China knew what RAM to use, what has that got to do with the theft? Proof of theft does not mean the J-20 has any relation to it.

Carbon Fiber is not for the RAM paint. Its for the construction of the airframe (aircraft body).
And of course, there isn't any direct proof that J-20 will be using it - but it is strongly implied as this is how pretty much everyone (US, Russian)'s stealth fighters are made.

 

[Ultra]

It will be difficult/impossible to derive the production methods from the carbon fiber product. It might be useful to test the US product to get an impression of its effectiveness but that will not necessarily improve the Chinese aircraft production. This smuggling attempt doesn't even prove that Chinese production methods are inferior. We just don't know.

You might be right, it will be difficult to derive the production method out of the carbon fiber finished product, but having the end product give the chinese a benchmark of what to aim for in their own research and production.

I have read it somewhere (I seriously can't remember where), that the current chinese carbon fibre tech can only make thousands of strand per cubic inch - far below the millions that Japanese and American can. Number of strands directly correlates to how strong the carbon fiber material will be (also how it is woven).