J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter siegecrossbow
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by78
General
Don't know. More likely previously unseen photos of the first flight.
Dizasta1
Senior Member
Guys, may I please request everyone, Chinese or Pakistani or anyone else, to stop arguing about whether J-20 would approved for Pakistan Air Force or not. None of us, be you Chinese, Pakistani, American, French or whatever, can say with certainty what China would do or what Pakistan should/would get. Be a bit more mature about this, who so ever tries to flame the argument that China would never let Pakistan have the J-20, is not worth responding to. The Sino-Pak friendship is not something anyone would understand other than Chinese and Pakistanis. Just let it be, and if this subject comes up again, then politely tell whoever raises the subject, to refrain from doing so.
Just for the record, China is not like America when it comes to it's allies, nor is Pakistan like Japam when it comes to procurement of military hardware. Equating or drawing similarities with these countries and their alliances is amateurish. For one thing, Pakistan didn't become China's friend, after being nuked by China. That's something to think about, when comparing alliances.
Just for the record, China is not like America when it comes to it's allies, nor is Pakistan like Japam when it comes to procurement of military hardware. Equating or drawing similarities with these countries and their alliances is amateurish. For one thing, Pakistan didn't become China's friend, after being nuked by China. That's something to think about, when comparing alliances.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Well its usually telling when someone resorts to name calling when they don't like someone else's analysis.
Let's all be a bit more mature and address the question rather than snipe at the messenger.
China and Pakistan has a special relationship borne of true friendship and mutual trust and admiration that is hard to find parallels in the world, but even the most special relationships have limits.
China will not compromise its own national security for money, and it has never exported its top of the range gear to anyone, even back in the day when China was dirt poor and in desperate need of hard cash. China famously rejected Iranian requests to buy the J8II for example.
If China wasn't willing to sell out back then, there is no way it will do so now.
The top of the line stuff, like the Type99 tanks, the J10s, even the 054A frigate, never mind the 052C or D, has never been offered for sale. The J10 is only a possibility for Pakistan now because the J20 is in the picture.
Pakistan knows this full well, which is why they have always been wise enough not to ask, at least publically, for things they know the Chinese will not sale to avoid putting China in a difficult position.
China has reciprocated by being more than generous with soft loans and ToT.
But the fact remains that it is completely unprecedented for China to export their top of the range kit, and there is absolutely no reason for China to break with that track record now or in the near future with the J20.
The J31 may be a completely different ball game, but the J20 will remain off limits until at least when China has 6th gen prototypes in advanced stages of design if not construction.
That is the only logical and reasonable conclusion one can draw from the facts and history. If you don't like that conclusion, you are free to disregard it and believe whatever you want. Just please refrain from veiled name calling while attempting to take the moral high ground.
Let's all be a bit more mature and address the question rather than snipe at the messenger.
China and Pakistan has a special relationship borne of true friendship and mutual trust and admiration that is hard to find parallels in the world, but even the most special relationships have limits.
China will not compromise its own national security for money, and it has never exported its top of the range gear to anyone, even back in the day when China was dirt poor and in desperate need of hard cash. China famously rejected Iranian requests to buy the J8II for example.
If China wasn't willing to sell out back then, there is no way it will do so now.
The top of the line stuff, like the Type99 tanks, the J10s, even the 054A frigate, never mind the 052C or D, has never been offered for sale. The J10 is only a possibility for Pakistan now because the J20 is in the picture.
Pakistan knows this full well, which is why they have always been wise enough not to ask, at least publically, for things they know the Chinese will not sale to avoid putting China in a difficult position.
China has reciprocated by being more than generous with soft loans and ToT.
But the fact remains that it is completely unprecedented for China to export their top of the range kit, and there is absolutely no reason for China to break with that track record now or in the near future with the J20.
The J31 may be a completely different ball game, but the J20 will remain off limits until at least when China has 6th gen prototypes in advanced stages of design if not construction.
That is the only logical and reasonable conclusion one can draw from the facts and history. If you don't like that conclusion, you are free to disregard it and believe whatever you want. Just please refrain from veiled name calling while attempting to take the moral high ground.
I thought 054A was offered to Thailand last year? But nevertheless, I agree weapon trades are political matters also.
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