J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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@ Brat !

Thanks for Your kind words ... and YEP, it was a very nice and unexpected offer from AI even more when I remember bacj the times I was eagerly awaiting the newest issue at my local "dealer" several moons ago.


and I would like a small diecast model as well.

Me too ... by the way with all the modifications to '2011' Trumpeter needs to redo their 1/72 scale model to represent the latest standard.

Deino
 

by78

General
A fresh one (1365x767)... Unsure if this is from the maiden flight.

13170477014_0676dbff12_o.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
@ Brat !

Thanks for Your kind words ... and YEP, it was a very nice and unexpected offer from AI even more when I remember bacj the times I was eagerly awaiting the newest issue at my local "dealer" several moons ago.




Me too ... by the way with all the modifications to '2011' Trumpeter needs to redo their 1/72 scale model to represent the latest standard.

Deino

yes they do, and I'm hoping that some one will bring out a diecast model shortly as well as I have a small collection that the Grandkids like to play with, then perhaps we will see if in fact the J-20 will do the "Pugachev Cobra", I bet it will with Grandpa flying...... they always think they win those air combats anyway????? brat

yes of course I get to fly the new ones first,,,,,,,daaahhh!
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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A fresh one (1365x767)... Unsure if this is from the maiden flight.

Nice one ... very nice !!! ;)

But regarding all these VIPs I would assume this one is from the maiden flight.

Deino
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Bit late with this post but whoever initiated the J-20 sale to Pakistan I would say this

Do you know what is the strategy of the PAF? And also who is the operational strategy of J-20? To
Be clear they don't match and there is no overly meaning there is no scope for a fighter like J-20 in PAF not now not ever

J-20 is a 5th generation stealth fighter for long range deep strike over heavy enemy radar and jamming environment to gain air superiority hit enemy tankers and take out AWACS etc just take a look at the aircraft there is no environment which fits into PAF doctrine so PAF ever wanting J-20 is low so the discussion wether China will sell is irrelevant
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The best defense is a strong offense.

The J20 would work extremely well for the PAF, especially in the deep penetration force multipler hunter role you just described. The J20 was tailor made to penetrate deep into what the enemy considers 'safe' airspace, where the enemy has overwhelming numerical superiority and extensive surface based defences, and kill their most valued assets and then super cruise home before the enemy could bring enough forces to bare to overwhelm the J20s.

It's stealth should allow it to circumvent the bulk of the enemy's defences, but it will also have the raw performance to dominate any enemy fighter it might have to punch through in order to get at its preferred targets and then home again.

A small force of J20s would allow the PAF to take the fight to the IAF over Indian territory and tie down large numbers of IAF fighters protecting their tanks, AWACS and transports so they are not taking part in offensive attacks over Pakistani territory.

Being able to successfully kill IAF tankers and AWACS would also give the rest of the PAF a huge tactical advantage over Pakistani territory by reducing the range IAF fighters can operate and also potentially giving PAF local information and coordination superiority.

Sounds like a dream scenario for the PAF and the IAF's worst nightmare bar maybe having to fight China and Pakistan at the same time.

If China offered Pakistan the J20, Pakistan would have to be mad to not snap it up before the Chinese came to their senses.

One of the issues Pakistan would need to address if they want 5th gens (most probably J31s since the J20 won't be on the cards until China has 6th gens in advanced prototype stage, just like how the J10 wasn't on the cards until the J20 was close to first flight) would be the security of the airbase for those 5th gens.

Having 5th gens is not much good if the enemy can take them all out on the ground in an alpha strike. So Pakistan would either need to invest in long range SAMs (I have still not heard a good reason why Pakistan has not done so already other than maybe because of a lack of funds) or think about basing its 5th gens outside of its territory in peace time.

If Pakistan and China can reach an agreement for the Chinese to lease the PAF an airbase in China close to the Sino-Pakistani boarder, and for all 5th gens China sells Pakistan to be based there, it would make a 5th gen sale far more likely since China won't have as much security concerns as it would if the planes were based in Pakistan about CIA operatives crawling all over them. Pakistan would benefit from getting 5th gens and also from the peace of mind in knowing that the Indians would have to be mad to attack said airbase as that would be guaranteed to drag China into any conflict. Such a deal could be done in parallel with Pakistan leasing a naval base for China to home port a fleet in the Indian Ocean.

I think such a move, or something similar, is very much in the back of the minds of the Indians, which is one of the main reasons they have resisted American temptation to join in with its containment strategy against China because they did not want to make a formal military alliance between China and Pakistan a no-brainer for Beijing.

Similarly, Beijing does not want to make India feel so threatened as to go running into Uncle Sam's eager arms.

Right now, there is an uneasy balance of sorts. Both India and China knows that they, and each other, can do things to make each other's security situation a great deal more precarious. So neither side wants to push the other so much as to break the current equilibrium and cause a massive escalation in tensions and worsening strategic security position to the detriment of both sides.

But I digress.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I think I know PAF tactics and strategy J-20 is beyond the scope of Pakistan doctrine

J-31 is however different story
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
The best defense is a strong offense.

The J20 would work extremely well for the PAF, especially in the deep penetration force multipler hunter role you just described. The J20 was tailor made to penetrate deep into what the enemy considers 'safe' airspace, where the enemy has overwhelming numerical superiority and extensive surface based defences, and kill their most valued assets and then super cruise home before the enemy could bring enough forces to bare to overwhelm the J20s.

It's stealth should allow it to circumvent the bulk of the enemy's defences, but it will also have the raw performance to dominate any enemy fighter it might have to punch through in order to get at its preferred targets and then home again.

A small force of J20s would allow the PAF to take the fight to the IAF over Indian territory and tie down large numbers of IAF fighters protecting their tanks, AWACS and transports so they are not taking part in offensive attacks over Pakistani territory.

Being able to successfully kill IAF tankers and AWACS would also give the rest of the PAF a huge tactical advantage over Pakistani territory by reducing the range IAF fighters can operate and also potentially giving PAF local information and coordination superiority.

Sounds like a dream scenario for the PAF and the IAF's worst nightmare bar maybe having to fight China and Pakistan at the same time.

If China offered Pakistan the J20, Pakistan would have to be mad to not snap it up before the Chinese came to their senses.

One of the issues Pakistan would need to address if they want 5th gens (most probably J31s since the J20 won't be on the cards until China has 6th gens in advanced prototype stage, just like how the J10 wasn't on the cards until the J20 was close to first flight) would be the security of the airbase for those 5th gens.

Having 5th gens is not much good if the enemy can take them all out on the ground in an alpha strike. So Pakistan would either need to invest in long range SAMs (I have still not heard a good reason why Pakistan has not done so already other than maybe because of a lack of funds) or think about basing its 5th gens outside of its territory in peace time.

If Pakistan and China can reach an agreement for the Chinese to lease the PAF an airbase in China close to the Sino-Pakistani boarder, and for all 5th gens China sells Pakistan to be based there, it would make a 5th gen sale far more likely since China won't have as much security concerns as it would if the planes were based in Pakistan about CIA operatives crawling all over them. Pakistan would benefit from getting 5th gens and also from the peace of mind in knowing that the Indians would have to be mad to attack said airbase as that would be guaranteed to drag China into any conflict. Such a deal could be done in parallel with Pakistan leasing a naval base for China to home port a fleet in the Indian Ocean.

I think such a move, or something similar, is very much in the back of the minds of the Indians, which is one of the main reasons they have resisted American temptation to join in with its containment strategy against China because they did not want to make a formal military alliance between China and Pakistan a no-brainer for Beijing.

Similarly, Beijing does not want to make India feel so threatened as to go running into Uncle Sam's eager arms.

Right now, there is an uneasy balance of sorts. Both India and China knows that they, and each other, can do things to make each other's security situation a great deal more precarious. So neither side wants to push the other so much as to break the current equilibrium and cause a massive escalation in tensions and worsening strategic security position to the detriment of both sides.

But I digress.


The fact is that who controls the sea lanes in the Indian Ocean controls the oil routes and international transport highway for everything else. With J20 Pakistan (*China*) controls the most important area in the world. Surely the USA will try to control UAE/ KSA/ Qatar but in the end the double hull tankers will go through the area that China will control sooner or later with J20. Many posters keep using the Indian deep strike option for J20. I think that is ridiculous. The Indian Airforce is just numbers. Just like their Navy it is in deep troubles in every aspect. Pakistan and India share 2000 km direct border. The most important parts of both nations can be reached without a deep strike option. In a stupid way one can even explode a tactical nuke above the Himalaya and the rest of the Indians will have no clean water. India is no longer a threat but more seen as annoying arrogant but failed superpower. Even the USA is moving away slowly. They have seen how unreliable this nation is. One way they want to get cookies from the nuclear deal but the other way they have warpact with Iran. And yes, even jet engines that are not allowed to be sold to Iran are flowing through an Indian broker from India to Iran... Sooner or later that will hit the papers.
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
The Ocean is controlled by *ships* not planes.

You can use planes to disrupt shipping, but if that is the intent, the planes you want are not J20s but JH7As or J16s. In any case, neither of those types could do much to safeguard shipping lanes so the point is entirely moot.

If China was seriously worried about the safety of commercial shipping transiting the Indian Ocean, it will establish a naval base in the region and home port a fleet there. J20s may be part of that package, but those will be Chinese J20s flying from Chinese bases.

I would also not be so dismissive of the IAF or India as a whole if I were you or Pakistan. Complacency is the surest way to loose. But since this is getting pretty off topic and into a rather sensitive matter, I think we should move on and leave it at that.
 
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