J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[latenlazy]

You could be right. I'm simply quoting what folks at F Y J S were speculating. So far, so blurry, in a manner of speaking. Then again, the 'frame' could just be refraction from the edge of the HUD, especially if the HUD is thick and the edge has a different finish (a la glass lens).

I do notice, however, the HUD appears larger in relation to the rest of cockpit instrument cluster. Again, it could just be an optical illusion.

Refraction edges usually aren't that dark, especially at the distance the picture must've been taken.

 

[by78]

Refraction edges usually aren't that dark, especially at the distance the picture must've been taken.

I beg to differ. I'm looking at my frameless glasses right now, and that edge refraction is positively ebony. Perhaps you were thinking of edge 'reflection'?

 

[latenlazy]

I beg to differ. I'm looking at my frameless glasses right now, and that edge refraction is positively ebony. Perhaps you were thinking of edge 'reflection'?

Distance. That said, not an expert on optics.

 

[by78]

Distance. That said, not an expert on optics.

Distance?

I see what you mean. Since color is but perception of light of a particular wavelength (cue the 'Qualia' crowd), and since wavelength changes with distance, the edge of the HUD could be undergoing either red shift or blue shift...

By the way, for a change in wavelength to be perceivable by the naked eye, the object must travel very large distances (in billions and billions and billions of miles in relation to the observer). This brings up a rather awkward question: assuming '2011' was parked on Earth, how many light years away was the photographer?

Now, do you wager the HUD is traveling away from you or toward you? Hint: blue shift occurs as the object is getting closer.

All of the above assumes the following:

1) The angle of propagation as well as observation remains constant throughout, with the latter referenced by a third point, say the ladder.
2) Wavelength shift is not caused by gravitational anomalies.
3) The photo is not 'excessively' re-touched.

 

[latenlazy]

Distance?

I see what you mean. Since color is but perception of light of a particular wavelength (cue the 'Qualia' crowd), and since wavelength changes with distance, the edge of the HUD could be undergoing either red shift or blue shift...

By the way, for a change in wavelength to be perceivable by the naked eye, the object must travel very large distances (in billions and billions and billions of miles in relation to the observer). This brings up a rather awkward question: assuming '2011' was parked on Earth, how many light years away was the photographer?

Now, do you wager the HUD is traveling away from you or toward you? Hint: blue shift occurs as the object is getting closer.

All of the above assumes the following:

1) The angle of propagation as well as observation remains constant throughout, with the latter referenced by a third point, say the ladder.
2) Wavelength shift is not caused by gravitational anomalies.
3) The photo is not 'excessively' re-touched.

Not what I was suggesting, exactly. You're assuming that light is operating in a vacuum, when light is operating in an atmosphere in this instance. Atmosphere=scatter. Furthermore, we're not talking about the human eye but a cmos sensor, one that seems to be rather shaky at that.

Anyways, there's no way for my conclusion to be precise, because as I said earlier I'm not an expert in optics . Nonetheless I somehow doubt that the black outline is a refraction. Looking at the HUD in the image closely again, I think perhaps pointing out that the black outline surrounds the HUD would have been a better argument. Another thing that seemed off about the refraction argument is that for the edge colour of refraction to be completely black it'd have to be bending all the light passing through the object away from the camera (assuming I'm remembering my basic optics correctly), which seems rather unlikely, but then we're talking about a picture at a distance with a cmos sensor, so in this case distance would actually work against my point.

 

[kwaigonegin]

"For the edge colour of refraction to be completely black". I wasn't specifically referring to the "black rim". I was talking about in order for you to get an edge that was black as a result of refraction that's what would happen. Either way, you can slice and dice my words, but I'm simply pointing out that the rim seems too dark to me for it to be a result of refraction.


I made no such assumption, nor is such assumption necessary to understand the point I was trying to make. Also, for someone who was quick pull the accusation of using straw men arguments, you seem insistent on trying to reinterpret everything I say into what you thought I meant, despite my attempts to clarify.



I don't think suggesting that you might be taking my use of the word "black" too literally is accusing you of anything, and if that's what I was doing, then you would be guilty of the same things? I'm simply explaining that I didn't intend for you to literally read that as the rim is categorically absolutely black, or for that to even be the point of my comment.

I don't see why you're so much more obsessed with slicing and dicing my words rather than simply reading the general points I was trying to make. I admit to have not been using the most precise language, but frankly speaking, I'm not sure why precise language is really necessary to understand my original comments.

Ladies, I think you're both very pretty ... I'm not sure why so many post of light relfection/refraction etc. I think it's petty clear that the HUD in 2001/2002 is not frameless. It actually looks very similar to the one on the J-11B!

J-11B HUD

 

[latenlazy]

Ladies, I think you're both very pretty ... I'm not sure why so many post of light relfection/refraction etc. I think it's petty clear that the HUD in 2001/2002 is not frameless. It actually looks very similar to the one on the J-11B!

...

J-11B HUD

I think I took some of the replies rather personally, especially with regards to both tone and how my comments were being read and interpreted. Anyways, I'm pretty much done with that particular discussion this point. There's really not much left to be said.

 

[by78]

Ladies, I think you're both very pretty ... I'm not sure why so many post of light relfection/refraction etc. I think it's petty clear that the HUD in 2001/2002 is not frameless. It actually looks very similar to the one on the J-11B!
...
J-11B HUD

You are right, they appear to share the same HUD, with really thick frames.

 

[Jeff Head]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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by78 and latenlazy, cut out and stop the meaningless argument. You have both made your points ad nausium. Do not continue.

SD is not a place for you to practice one-upsmanship. Your ongoing and continual argument is derailing the thread. I just deleted 20 of those back and forths.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST. JUST STOP THE CONTEST.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> END MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS <<<<<<<<<<<<<
​

 

[Deino]

Thanks Jeff ! ... it seems to me that in mind of the high hopes for '2011' - like we say in Germay "Einige sind gerade dabei, ein wenig die Nerven zu verlieren !" (as some are just going to lose their patience, or so !)

I'm eagerly awaing this too ... but the little pills help a bit.

Anyway any news in Chinese forums ???

Deino