J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Compare to what though? CNC milling it's no quick jog around the park either.

Exactly. 3D printing doesn't take that long, the issue is it can only make one unit at a time, so as of now, the higher the volume, the less competitive it is compared to conventional mass production techniques. However, for advanced fighters, even the highest production rate could hardly be accused of being swift.

Besides, we are only just seeing the commercialisation of 3D printing, the technology itself is still relatively new and have vast growth potential and scope for improvement. As with all new technologies, the more it is used, the faster it is mastered, developed and matured.
 

Engineer

Major
It depends on the complexity of the component. If you are just drilling holes on a plate, then obviously a traditional CNC machine will be faster. However, if you are making very complex components such as a rocket engine injector, than 3D printing will be faster. Research done by NASA shows that with 3D printing, an injector can be finished in about 4 months versus 12 months without.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The wallclimbers are going to be wary for a while. I hope the guy who leaked the photos won't get too heavy a sentence for this.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
this photo is not new but it's much larger and provide more detail. What come into my mind is that if there were no center partition wall, would it provide more space? and is it possible that they invent missile with no fin or with fins completely fold/hidden?

Z6MgLVN.jpg
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Compare to what though? CNC milling it's no quick jog around the park either.

I don't think so, maybe you should look into 3D printing, limitation of speed is set by the type of material processed, too fast and you compromise the chemical properties of the material
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
this photo is not new but it's much larger and provide more detail. What come into my mind is that if there were no center partition wall, would it provide more space? and is it possible that they invent missile with no fin or with fins completely fold/hidden?

Z6MgLVN.jpg

I am pretty sure that the partition wall is there for structural support reasons.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I am pretty sure that the partition wall is there for structural support reasons.

Yes, and as a structural frame for the two doors to butt up against, I don't see a latch for the doors on the partition, but that doesn't mean there isn't one, they may be held closed by hydraulic pressure from the actuators???? brat
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
I don't think so, maybe you should look into 3D printing, limitation of speed is set by the type of material processed, too fast and you compromise the chemical properties of the material
Sure, but that's true of casting then milling too. I'm not saying sintering is definitely faster. I'm pointing out that it depends on the manufacturing process you're comparing it to.
 

emilymainzer

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Most of the structural mass is devoted to bulkheads and supporting elements. 3D printing can help with reducing the mass of non structural components too.

Bulkheads may have relatively simple shapes, but that's in part because the milling process imposes limitations on the kinds of geometries available. I'm aware that sintered material has less strength than casted ones, but the strength of a structure isn't just determined by material, but also how shape distributes force loads. That point on shaping doesn't have to refer to anything exotic like more curves either. It can refer to something as simple as dimensional limitations imposed by the casting and milling process. In areas where the expected force load is light you can afford to shave off more mass up to a certain point, but there's a limitation to that when you have to cast then mill the titanium (refer to the picture of the sintered part in Engineer's example).

As Engineer suggested, sintering also allows you to eliminate places where you'd have to weld the material, which means to get the same amount of strength in an area with welded parts you can afford lighter structures. This point is particularly true of support pieces that require welding, as welds can be where some of the greatest force loads are concentrated. Even though the crystalline structure of sintered pieces are imperfect a consistent shape will have fewer structural discontinuities and points of failure, which allows for the transference of force loads to where they're supposed to go and make the overall structure stronger. Finally, I'll let your own picture of the F-22 bulkhead answer your point about bulkhead shaping with regards to holes, gaps, curves, and right angles.


Your deduction doesn't necessarily conclude that those planes can't supercruise without a F119 class engine, but simply that Russia didn't think those engines fit their performance requirements. It's not like all supercruising is equal. I think the primary contention over this point has been whether the J-20 can supercruise with the AL-31, not whether that supercruising performance is adequate.

F-22 Vs J-20:

F-22
The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a single-seat, twin-engine fifth-generation supermaneuverable fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It was designed primarily as an air superiority fighter, but has additional capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence, its one of America's Best fighter jet.

J-20
The J-20 is a fifth generation stealth, twin-engine fighter aircraft prototype developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force.[ In late 2010, the J-20 underwent high speed taxiing tests. The J-20 made its first flight on 11 January 2011.] General He Weirong, Deputy Commander of the People's Liberation Army Air Force said in November 2009 that he expected the J-20 to be operational in 2017–2019. The J-20 is newly developed in China and have similar techlology to the F-22 and the T-50

So, which fighter in the near future will rule the skies?
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
F-22 Vs J-20:

F-22
The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a single-seat, twin-engine fifth-generation supermaneuverable fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It was designed primarily as an air superiority fighter, but has additional capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence, its one of America's Best fighter jet.

J-20
The J-20 is a fifth generation stealth, twin-engine fighter aircraft prototype developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force.[ In late 2010, the J-20 underwent high speed taxiing tests. The J-20 made its first flight on 11 January 2011.] General He Weirong, Deputy Commander of the People's Liberation Army Air Force said in November 2009 that he expected the J-20 to be operational in 2017–2019. The J-20 is newly developed in China and have similar techlology to the F-22 and the T-50

So, which fighter in the near future will rule the skies?

Who the heck knows. They may never see combat against one another.
 
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