J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[Engineer]

That is not true, simple because a TVC nozzles fitted fighter deflect less the aerodynamic surfaces, thus becomes more stealthy at cruise flight and it generates less drag in a turn simply for the same reason, it deflects less its aerodynamic surfaces, so it will reduce drag to turn too.

Any change to RCS at cruise will be minimial, since deflection at cruise is extremely minute and only serves to maintain the aircraft's attitude. A big enough deflection will cause the aircraft to turn, and this change in attitude of the aircraft will cause more change to RCS than any control surface deflection. That happens when the aircraft is prepared to go on offensive, or got detected and is in a defensive position where RCS no longer matters.

Likewise, drag due to control surface deflection is negligable during cruise. This is because the deflection is very minute. Drag starts to become significant when the aircraft is in a very tight turn, and only when that aircraft is using tail control surfaces. For an aircraft using canard, this drag is not there due to the nature of how canard works.

 

[Lion]

.... and once again a "forth & back" discussion regarding aerodynamics, TVC, canards and powerplants ...

Especially since all I want is the unveiling of no. 2003 !! As such can we come back to the topic, gentleman ?

DEino

Deino, canards, aerodynamics and powerplants are all part of J-20. If you stop this and that, there is no point of starting this thread. Might as well we just post pictures will do.

 

[plawolf]

Deino, canards, aerodynamics and powerplants are all part of J-20. If you stop this and that, there is no point of starting this thread. Might as well we just post pictures will do.

Can in Lion, you been here long enough to know answering back at mods after they had donned their mod hats is a bad idea.

Lets all just drop this OT TVC stuff before someone gets a needless holiday over it.

 

[T-U-P]

Deino, canards, aerodynamics and powerplants are all part of J-20. If you stop this and that, there is no point of starting this thread. Might as well we just post pictures will do.

The point is, we've had pages and pages of this discussion on canards and aerodynamics (and pages and pages more before), so far it hasn't gotten us anywhere. The two groups of thoughts are not getting close to a compromise either. There is no point in continuing this kind of discussion because all people are posting is basically repeating their prior claim.

 

[bd popeye]

This is an interesting thread. This forum is very different from others I have seen. You don't see much of the nasty things that happen in some forums.

A question. I was browsing this thread and have seen only photos of four J-20s. 2001,2002, 2007 and 2008. Are there any others?

 

[Deino]

A question. I was browsing this thread and have seen only photos of four J-20s. 2001,2002, 2007 and 2008. Are there any others?

There are only two so far: 2001 & 2002 ... with 2003 so far not seen and - esp. me - eagerly awaited !

No. 2007 & 2007 are photoshoped images.

Deino

 

[kwaigonegin]

This is an interesting thread. This forum is very different from others I have seen. You don't see much of the nasty things that happen in some forums.

... and that is why this is the premier forum on the internet when it comes to China's military discussion. Unlike 90% of forums out there this one is very professional and everyone for the most part discuss things in a civil manner and don't go into childish and antagonistic rants except for very rare ocasions which turns so many other forums into trash and a big turn off to those folks who are genuinely interested in these things.
Kudos to the mods here also for keeping this forum smooth going and professional.

 

[MiG-29]

The point is, we've had pages and pages of this discussion on canards and aerodynamics (and pages and pages more before), so far it hasn't gotten us anywhere. The two groups of thoughts are not getting close to a compromise either. There is no point in continuing this kind of discussion because all people are posting is basically repeating their prior claim.

I do agree sometimes the thread becomes boring if we repeat the same things time after time, sometimes i admit repeating the same about canards or aerodynamics of the jet is a bit boring if no one wants to talk about it and if we do not get an agreement and the other side or my opinion entrenches in a position without moving or compromising.

But also i have an objection about Deino`s point.

Reduce the topic to a photo album first is boring, second i find Deino`s objection a bit absurd, J-20 is an airplane, it is impossible, canards, engines won`t appear again time after time.




The beauty of a forum is sharing opinions and sharing interests and by this i mean we should also admit this is a forum, not a news agency, really if i want pictures or news most Chinese related forum`s get the same pictures and sometimes even the same members post the same pictures at the same time, in my opinion, we should not make aerodynamics or technical stuff a taboo, otherwise the thread also will become boring.



I will abide to the rules of the forum, however as a suggestion we should not make a taboo about aerodynamics, engines or stealth.


These things are related to J-20, to say this thread should be only related to news, then no one should coment because at the end of the day, aerodynamics, stealth engines will pop up again and people will again discuss about aerodynamics, RCS, in fact all what we have discussed is related to J-20.

And even if people might find this funny, sometimes discussing things and posting links makes me learn, in fact many times discussing topics with engineer has forced me to read more and learn more and that is why i like the forum, i want to learn and even if it might sound funny, when people question`s you your points it force you to read more and more and learn more and more.




The problem i see and i acknowledge is we should learn to see when we are not going any where and stop on time, but i think making a taboo of aerodynamics canards, engines or what ever technical aspects of the J-20 and just make a photo albums just makes the thread boring simply because all members want to opine.

 

[kyanges]

I do agree sometimes the thread becomes boring if we repeat the same things time after time, sometimes i admit repeating the same about canards or aerodynamics of the jet is a bit boring if no one wants to talk about it and if we do not get an agreement and the other side or my opinion entrenches in a position without moving or compromising.

But also i have an objection about Deino`s point.

Reduce the topic to a photo album first is boring, second i find Deino`s objection a bit absurd, J-20 is an airplane, it is impossible, canards, engines won`t appear again time after time.




The beauty of a forum is sharing opinions and sharing interests and by this i mean we should also admit this is a forum, not a news agency, really if i want pictures or news most Chinese related forum`s get the same pictures and sometimes even the same members post the same pictures at the same time, in my opinion, we should not make aerodynamics or technical stuff a taboo, otherwise the thread also will become boring.



I will abide to the rules of the forum, however as a suggestion we should not make a taboo about aerodynamics, engines or stealth.


These things are related to J-20, to say this thread should be only related to news, then no one should coment because at the end of the day, aerodynamics, stealth engines will pop up again and people will again discuss about aerodynamics, RCS, in fact all what we have discussed is related to J-20.

And even if people might find this funny, sometimes discussing things and posting links makes me learn, in fact many times discussing topics with engineer has forced me to read more and learn more and that is why i like the forum, i want to learn and even if it might sound funny, when people question`s you your points it force you to read more and more and learn more and more.




The problem i see and i acknowledge is we should learn to see when we are not going any where and stop on time, but i think making a taboo of aerodynamics canards, engines or what ever technical aspects of the J-20 and just make a photo albums just makes the thread boring simply because all members want to opine.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/aerodynamics-thread-30-5907.html

 

[MiG-29]

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/aerodynamics-thread-30-5907.html

that will be fine if no one talks about aerodynamics in this thread, which is basicly impossible since people here and i include my self has an opine about J-20 based upon what they understand upon aerodynamics.


But my objection was not only aerodynamics, but RCS or the physics related to stealth or the new weaponry based on HHOBS, in few words all the time you will get technical stuff if you really want to opine, otherwise the thread should be like the game cards children play saying see i have this picture and me this and the technical stuff will be a lot af absurd things.

See it is impossible if you want to have a nice opinion based upon real facts skip math and physics, J-20 is a product of math and physics an chemestry, if you want really opinions you need to read technical stuff, other wise poeple only will opine upon nationalistic and jingoistic bases.