Why should there be a dip? After leaving the cat on land the aircraft is still supported by its undercarriage until it is rotated and takes off.
J-15 carrier fighter thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Intrepid
Major
I collect only statements (rumors) and hints and look at small details that I notice. Whether this is true or not will be seen later.
I believe it is true. But that does not matter. Facts count.
In other words, are you trying to find evidence to prove and validate rumours?
I've repeatedly said over the last few years that such a method is completely impractical, and almost illogical for the purposes of what we're trying to do (PLA watching).
The more sensible and practical way to do so is to collect credible rumours, and try to use facts and evidence to try to disprove them over time. If they are unable to be disproven, then it means those rumours are still "in play" or "plausible" and we can wait for eventual positive confirmation to prove the rumour, but given the nature of the PLA's opsec that usually takes a long time to emerge.
That's why I'm quite against your way of reviewing these photos, because you make it sound like the lack of a photo directly suggesting or proving a J-15 behind the EM cat (or even being launched by the EM cat) is unable to prove the rumour (which is of course true) therefore that is somehow subpar.
When in reality, the very fact that we've had photos of completion of the EM cat and steam cat, and a photo of a J-15 being positioned behind the catapults themselves not only makes the rumour of the successful EM catapult test immensely plausible but I would judge it as providing substantial weight to the rumour, especially given the timeline we're working with.
Quickie
Colonel
It may not be so straight forward to simulate certain carrier's condition on land. One way to go about it is to catapult the aircraft through a longer distance and to a higher velocity to compensate for the carriage wheel resistance from the time of catapult release to the time the aircraft actually leave the track.
It is best to use cats built as intended for the ship and correct for the difference by calculation.
Quickie
Colonel
It will certainly be built as such. Other than that, it's probably a good idea to built the test catapult slightly longer for the purposes of testing.
Probably the biggest difference is that a real carrier can sail 30 knots in headwind for 30+ knots of extra airspeed. My guess is they'll just test on land with a lighter takeoff weight and extrapolate from there.
Intrepid
Major
They test on land with an additional portion of runway without catapult assistence to reach a save take-off speed. The catapult must be able to reach the designed speed with the designed weight within the designed length from zero on.
You're right. Nothing says they have to take off in the same distance as on a ship.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Our friend Kyle Mizokami as usual pooh pooh the statement that she is combat ready
I believe there is so many false fact in this article To begin with Liaoning is not "Home body" She did sail to SCS with her escort
Another myth is J15 has poor weapon load and only use as fleet protector and not as offensive platform. But SU33 did bomb Syrian rebel. Henri K has an article disputing this false assumption . Here it is google translate. Bltzo is expert in J 15 weapon load Any comment. There are too many picture to post in here. So need to open the link to understand this article
Since the Su-33s, which took off from the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, participated in air raids on Syria on Tuesday, 15 November, there is doubt as to the actual Air-Surface capability of this Russian embarked , Originally, was designed only as an air superiority aircraft. It is then necessary to ask whether his little brother J-15, which is developed from a prototype T-10K acquired by the Chinese in Ukraine 15 years ago, will inherit the same "problem" (* ) Because the two fighter share the same technological line. Their technical characteristics should therefore naturally reflect the same "ideology" of design.
If we ask the question differently - Can the J-15 take off today from the Chinese aircraft carrier 16 Liaoning with other ammunition than the Air-Air missiles?
Before giving a clear and unambiguous answer to this question, it would be necessary, in fact, to respond first to another much more summary: Will the Chinese navy use its naval forces with the same doctrine as that of the navy Soviet Union of the time, namely to provide an anti-aircraft protection bubble for its fleets of nuclear submarines against Western ASW aircraft?
If the answer is yes, then the development of J-15 should undoubtedly also focus on air fights like the Su-33, otherwise Chinese engineers should include the "multi-role" ingredients from the start to respond to this New specifications.
And as many Chinese Internet users said today: "The biggest fan in the world of the United States is none other than China" - the answer is no, the Chinese will not use their carrier groups as the Russians but rather approximate the American model, therefore Western.
The Chinese naval forces - which are clearly still in the phase of acquisition of competences but have already a long future in front of them, because no less than 2 new carriers are already under construction - will be the vectors to project the will and the influence Policy of China, well beyond its historical boundaries.
The origin of this doctrinal difference between China and the former USSR is a bit long to spread - we will come back to this subject shortly - but do we have the first elements that "demonstrate" this to us through things The most "superficial" which are the J-15 airship configurations?
The answer is yes, and this since September 2013.
Indeed, on the day of September 15, 2013, the J-15s, which were still in prototype, carried out one of the most important tests of the program - takeoff and landing under the maximum authorized mass since the door -Liaoning aircraft. This news made the front page of the Chinese media two days later.
For example, state news agency Xinhua said in its article that "the J-15 carried out landing and take-off tests for the first time in different masses and with different configurations of cargoes".
Other asymmetric carriage configurations were also tested during this test campaign in September 2013. You can see them for yourself in the four videos in the appendix.
As for the most "classic" mode, that of air defense, the J-15 has already shown itself in two different configurations, where at least one medium-range Air-Air missile PL-12 is carried between the engines Plus 2 PL-8 missiles at the end of the wings, and one that is seen most often, ie a PL-12 and a PL-8 under each wing.
*): A few words to finish this quick summary on the various configurations of J-15, which dates all the same 3 years ago now when I had written, we hear here and there a lot of questions On the "problem" of Su-33, the fact that it was only seen with dumb unguided bombs FAB-500, so nothing "justifies" its presence in this Syrian theater where Air-Air capacity Is prioritized.
But it is not possible to ask a vacuum cleaner, who was conceived from the beginning to do nothing but aspiration, to clean the floor with steam, the "problem" in
The videos broadcast on September 17, 2013 by national television CCTV have also revealed passages, showing some of these configurations Air-Air, Air-Ground and Air-Sea of J-15.
In the "Ground Support" configuration, prototype 552 took off with 2 PL-8 short-range Air-to-Air missiles and 4 500 kg smooth bombs. The latter are mounted on the two points of transport under the air inlets and two others under the sails.
Other sources claim that the J-15 firing line system can also support Chinese Air-Ground missiles such as the KD-88 to the TV or IIR guidance, in which case the aircraft should be equipped with a Pod guide, but we have not seen it until here in photo or video to confirm this.
In "attack of marine objectives", the same 552 was filmed to take off and land with 2 YJ-83KH Air-Sea missiles, doubled by 2 PL-8 missiles for its self-defense.
A prototype of J-15 with the Air-Sea missile YJ-83KH
Another anti-ship configuration was being studied if one believes in the academic documents, which analyze the carriage of a supersonic anti-ship missile YJ-12 under the belly of J-15. This new generation missile is now equipped with the H-6G bombers of the Chinese Navy and its variant YJ-12A will replace the 3M80MBE on the destroyers Project 956E Sovremenny. The missile speed, which varies according to the flight profile, is between Mach 2.0 and Mach 3.2. The maximum range is 380 kilometers.
2016-11-17-le-j-15-would-have-the-same-problem-that-the-su-33-14
In the Buddy-Buddy refueling configuration, another J-15 prototype, registered 553, took off from the Liaoning aircraft carrier with a Russian-made UPAZ-1A pod installed between the engines.
2016-11-17-le-j-15-would-have-the-same-problem-that-the-su-33-08
Here is another picture that shows more clearly this pod of refueling on another prototype 556, knowing that in 2014 the Chinese air pilot pilots have already completed the take-off tests, from Liaoning, with 9 tons of internal fuel oil and 5 Tons of external armaments.
A first J-15 can thus take off with 6.5 tons of armaments but less kerosene, and regain its maximum autonomy once in flight thanks to refueling coming from another J-15, although, according to numerical simulations, A J-15 could also take off with its full load and 6.5 tonnes of external loads, but this would be done under certain conditions. For example, the take-off head wind must be at least 30 knots and the take-off must be Made to the point of 195 meters, which will then immobilize the oblique track for the recovery of planes.
I believe there is so many false fact in this article To begin with Liaoning is not "Home body" She did sail to SCS with her escort
Another myth is J15 has poor weapon load and only use as fleet protector and not as offensive platform. But SU33 did bomb Syrian rebel. Henri K has an article disputing this false assumption . Here it is google translate. Bltzo is expert in J 15 weapon load Any comment. There are too many picture to post in here. So need to open the link to understand this article
Since the Su-33s, which took off from the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, participated in air raids on Syria on Tuesday, 15 November, there is doubt as to the actual Air-Surface capability of this Russian embarked , Originally, was designed only as an air superiority aircraft. It is then necessary to ask whether his little brother J-15, which is developed from a prototype T-10K acquired by the Chinese in Ukraine 15 years ago, will inherit the same "problem" (* ) Because the two fighter share the same technological line. Their technical characteristics should therefore naturally reflect the same "ideology" of design.
If we ask the question differently - Can the J-15 take off today from the Chinese aircraft carrier 16 Liaoning with other ammunition than the Air-Air missiles?
Before giving a clear and unambiguous answer to this question, it would be necessary, in fact, to respond first to another much more summary: Will the Chinese navy use its naval forces with the same doctrine as that of the navy Soviet Union of the time, namely to provide an anti-aircraft protection bubble for its fleets of nuclear submarines against Western ASW aircraft?
If the answer is yes, then the development of J-15 should undoubtedly also focus on air fights like the Su-33, otherwise Chinese engineers should include the "multi-role" ingredients from the start to respond to this New specifications.
And as many Chinese Internet users said today: "The biggest fan in the world of the United States is none other than China" - the answer is no, the Chinese will not use their carrier groups as the Russians but rather approximate the American model, therefore Western.
The Chinese naval forces - which are clearly still in the phase of acquisition of competences but have already a long future in front of them, because no less than 2 new carriers are already under construction - will be the vectors to project the will and the influence Policy of China, well beyond its historical boundaries.
The origin of this doctrinal difference between China and the former USSR is a bit long to spread - we will come back to this subject shortly - but do we have the first elements that "demonstrate" this to us through things The most "superficial" which are the J-15 airship configurations?
The answer is yes, and this since September 2013.
Indeed, on the day of September 15, 2013, the J-15s, which were still in prototype, carried out one of the most important tests of the program - takeoff and landing under the maximum authorized mass since the door -Liaoning aircraft. This news made the front page of the Chinese media two days later.
For example, state news agency Xinhua said in its article that "the J-15 carried out landing and take-off tests for the first time in different masses and with different configurations of cargoes".
Other asymmetric carriage configurations were also tested during this test campaign in September 2013. You can see them for yourself in the four videos in the appendix.
As for the most "classic" mode, that of air defense, the J-15 has already shown itself in two different configurations, where at least one medium-range Air-Air missile PL-12 is carried between the engines Plus 2 PL-8 missiles at the end of the wings, and one that is seen most often, ie a PL-12 and a PL-8 under each wing.
*): A few words to finish this quick summary on the various configurations of J-15, which dates all the same 3 years ago now when I had written, we hear here and there a lot of questions On the "problem" of Su-33, the fact that it was only seen with dumb unguided bombs FAB-500, so nothing "justifies" its presence in this Syrian theater where Air-Air capacity Is prioritized.
But it is not possible to ask a vacuum cleaner, who was conceived from the beginning to do nothing but aspiration, to clean the floor with steam, the "problem" in
The videos broadcast on September 17, 2013 by national television CCTV have also revealed passages, showing some of these configurations Air-Air, Air-Ground and Air-Sea of J-15.
In the "Ground Support" configuration, prototype 552 took off with 2 PL-8 short-range Air-to-Air missiles and 4 500 kg smooth bombs. The latter are mounted on the two points of transport under the air inlets and two others under the sails.
Other sources claim that the J-15 firing line system can also support Chinese Air-Ground missiles such as the KD-88 to the TV or IIR guidance, in which case the aircraft should be equipped with a Pod guide, but we have not seen it until here in photo or video to confirm this.
In "attack of marine objectives", the same 552 was filmed to take off and land with 2 YJ-83KH Air-Sea missiles, doubled by 2 PL-8 missiles for its self-defense.
A prototype of J-15 with the Air-Sea missile YJ-83KH
Another anti-ship configuration was being studied if one believes in the academic documents, which analyze the carriage of a supersonic anti-ship missile YJ-12 under the belly of J-15. This new generation missile is now equipped with the H-6G bombers of the Chinese Navy and its variant YJ-12A will replace the 3M80MBE on the destroyers Project 956E Sovremenny. The missile speed, which varies according to the flight profile, is between Mach 2.0 and Mach 3.2. The maximum range is 380 kilometers.
2016-11-17-le-j-15-would-have-the-same-problem-that-the-su-33-14
In the Buddy-Buddy refueling configuration, another J-15 prototype, registered 553, took off from the Liaoning aircraft carrier with a Russian-made UPAZ-1A pod installed between the engines.
2016-11-17-le-j-15-would-have-the-same-problem-that-the-su-33-08
Here is another picture that shows more clearly this pod of refueling on another prototype 556, knowing that in 2014 the Chinese air pilot pilots have already completed the take-off tests, from Liaoning, with 9 tons of internal fuel oil and 5 Tons of external armaments.
A first J-15 can thus take off with 6.5 tons of armaments but less kerosene, and regain its maximum autonomy once in flight thanks to refueling coming from another J-15, although, according to numerical simulations, A J-15 could also take off with its full load and 6.5 tonnes of external loads, but this would be done under certain conditions. For example, the take-off head wind must be at least 30 knots and the take-off must be Made to the point of 195 meters, which will then immobilize the oblique track for the recovery of planes.