J-10 Thread IV

[Deleted member 13312]

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Well according to this article here, and export model of the J-10 that is the fc-20 was displayed at the Singapore airshow. But that was in 2016, which in some ways can be considered a rather recent development and I have yet to see avic make any concentrated effort to market it abroad.

But there is tough competition that is facing the fc-20, in the form of both the f-16 and the mig-29/35. Countries that has the funds for such a fighter will mostly gravitate to established fighters of reputation. Whereas countries that don't will have to opt for fighters like the jf-17 instead.

 

[Deino]

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Well according to this article here, and export model of the J-10 that is the fc-20 was displayed at the Singapore airshow. But that was in 2016, which in some ways can be considered a rather recent development and I have yet to see avic make any concentrated effort to market it abroad.

But there is tough competition that is facing the fc-20, in the form of both the f-16 and the mig-29/35. Countries that has the funds for such a fighter will mostly gravitate to established fighters of reputation. Whereas countries that don't will have to opt for fighters like the jf-17 instead.

AFAIK the current export variant is now the J-10CE as promoted at Zhuhai!?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

But there is tough competition that is facing the fc-20, in the form of both the f-16 and the mig-29/35. Countries that has the funds for such a fighter will mostly gravitate to established fighters of reputation. Whereas countries that don't will have to opt for fighters like the jf-17 instead.

Mig29/35 always has that second engine issue. It sold but having a second engine ups the complexity and price of repair.

F16 has a single engine from your choice of two makers.

J10CE has a feature or two that I feel should have been on new F16 models post block 70.
that DSI. F16 trialed that Lockheed Martin had a F16 sitting next to their Palmdale plant with one. Add in the TVC nozzle we saw at the air show with possible Low Observable features. F16 trailed that the MATV and LOAN.
But those are not found on production F16 models even the newest offerings.
J10 has those but One thing J10 doesn't have is P&W or GE.
J10 has until recently had to have it's engines imported third party from Russia. The AL31 from the Flanker series for an Export buyer that can be a killer as what happens if you get in a tiff with them.
An F16V buy the engine is a package deal take your pick GE or P&W. Unless WS10 is packaged with a good supply of spares. Otherwise you need to go to Russia. And Rosoboronexport its probably going to make it easier to buy Flankers than just their engines.

 

[Biscuits]

Mig29/35 always has that second engine issue. It sold but having a second engine ups the complexity and price of repair.

F16 has a single engine from your choice of two makers.

J10CE has a feature or two that I feel should have been on new F16 models post block 70.
that DSI. F16 trialed that Lockheed Martin had a F16 sitting next to their Palmdale plant with one. Add in the TVC nozzle we saw at the air show with possible Low Observable features. F16 trailed that the MATV and LOAN.
But those are not found on production F16 models even the newest offerings.
J10 has those but One thing J10 doesn't have is P&W or GE.
J10 has until recently had to have it's engines imported third party from Russia. The AL31 from the Flanker series for an Export buyer that can be a killer as what happens if you get in a tiff with them.
An F16V buy the engine is a package deal take your pick GE or P&W. Unless WS10 is packaged with a good supply of spares. Otherwise you need to go to Russia. And Rosoboronexport its probably going to make it easier to buy Flankers than just their engines.

Since this export model seems to be based on C version and not early A, it should carry WS-10, although not necessarily the best model of it. Same for the other stuff. Strongly doubt it will carry TVC like domestic models.

Just because it's legal to sell doesn't mean it's easy to buy it. PLA in general doesn't export front line equipment. As they start to move towards J-20, then we may see more sales.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Mig29/35 always has that second engine issue. It sold but having a second engine ups the complexity and price of repair.

Mig-35 is now firmly in f/a-18(i.e. former f-4 class) weight category, going in the same multi-role direction.
They are in a competition as non-us platforms, but strictly speaking they are in different weight categories at this point.

Add in the TVC nozzle we saw at the air show with possible Low Observable features.

Afaik, it's simply not very rewarding. Adding some LO features to existing platform isn't typically worth it. You can do it if you are making an new non-VLO aircraft(Rafale, Superbug, Eurofighter, j-10 - all of them appeared in 1990s and were fresh designs*) and it won't cost you much, but for a platform 50 yrs old...
*someone seriously shall write a big beautiful paper and just split this damn 4th generation.
It just includes too much, and these pluses are quite misleading.

And Rosoboronexport its probably going to make it easier to buy Flankers than just their engines.

WS-10+US pressure make it far less stingy.
Not exactly the same case, but RD-93 is a nice example. It was the very limit India would stand (and even w/o Russia Pakistan could just source engines elsewhere)

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Afaik, it's simply not very rewarding. Adding some LO features to existing platform isn't typically worth it. You can do it if you are making an new non-VLO aircraft(Rafale, Superbug, Eurofighter, j-10 - all of them appeared in 1990s and were fresh designs*) and it won't cost you much, but for a platform 50 yrs old.

F15 Is 50+ F16 is 40+
I specifically said block 70. Block 70 and Block 72 are brand new F16 models being offered and would be built for sale today. Also as I said both features were tested already as opposed to starting over like Silent Eagle or the fan Silent Flankers.

 

[Gloire_bb]

I specifically said block 70. Block 70 and Block 72 are brand new F16 models

"Brand new" is f/a-18e, which looks like a hornet, but basicaslly is a completely new fighter(with roots in mid-late 1980s), where new development allowed for new features. No amount of factory magic will make a superbug from an ordinary one, yet it still is nowhere near true stealth plane.
Brand new f-16s are still our good old f-16s in their core. Taiwanese f-16Vs(former A!) are a very visible proof.

Furthermore, i believe this was clearly considered: changing just the inlet won't kill the production line. Yet even "local" and "totally new" f-21 still features a good old inlet. So it is clearly not so simple.

 

[Deino]

Guys ... can we stick to the J-10??

 

[araberuni]

Would you mind sharing some evidence? To the best of my knowledge, China has sent their AF aerobatic team, which is consisted of the J-10A’s, abroad many times for demonstration purposes. I have not heard anything about China attempting to market their J-10 to other countries. Many have expressed interest, but China has not shown their willingness to sell.

Here is reliable Source. Iran wanted to buy J-10 with local production capability. China wanted oil & gas in return of fighter jet. I believe Iranian delegates visited China to discuss strengthening military ties with China other than fighter jet procurement.

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Former Pakistani prime minister visited China and discussed J-10 procurement.

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Bangladesh and Argentina cannot afford to buy fighter jet until China offers some loan forgiveness. Bangladesh and Argentina do not have manpower and infrastructure to maintain such fighter jet unless China lend their manpower. For example Chinese defense contractor and military advisor help Bangladesh operates type 35G submarine because Bangladesh has no clue what are they doing?

I can only assume Engine is the only component of J-10 which is holding back China to flood the market with J-10.
Why am I optimistic? Simply because China flooded the market with Type 056 Corvette and OPV because of mass production capabilities of China. Ship building might of China is now in global scale.

There are many goodies regarding J-10C and there are many unknown which we don't know. Maybe Industrial secrets such as Engines capability. Maybe that's why China is working closely with Ukrainian and Russian, maintaining a delicate relationship between both.

Second reason, again I am assuming...
China is only country in the world with too many fighter jet programs, training aircraft programs, UAS and UAV programs. It takes hundreds of thousands of skilled manpower and monetary commitment to protect massive investment.

You may add more to these two.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Here is reliable Source. Iran wanted to buy J-10 with local production capability. China wanted oil & gas in return of fighter jet. I believe Iranian delegates visited China to discuss strengthening military ties with China other than fighter jet procurement.

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Pretty sure the arms embargo is still in place.