J-10 Thread IV

[ougoah]

Now the naysayers will soon be crying foul that China has copied the Su-35 engines and TVC. Sometimes I think the guys control leaks like this to fuel such speculations so China can be underestimated for as long as possible.

 

[Jura The idiot]

Happy Christmas!!! Thanks and IMO indeed that's real.

Deino

congrats Deino, now noticed both

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and

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had recently retweeted your

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containing the picture from the post you quoted

(now I'll try to figure out what it actually shows LOL!)

 

[Tiberium]

The rumor is CAC use an old 10B body as the testbed of TVC control.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Does anyone who if CAC retained any of the J10A prototypes or pre-serials as factory test birds? If they did, it would have made far more sense to use one of those if this was laying the groundwork for a new single engined 5th gen instead of pulling a brand new J10C and modifiying it.

Wallclimbers claim that this particular bird is a J-10B. Not sure if there are any old test platform J-10As still in service.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

Do we know if this is the same engine as the new prototype of J20 with ws10B/X?
If no, then maybe it is a ws15 ? But it would be too early what we previously thought. 2020-2023 more likely.

 

[jobjed]

Do we know if this is the same engine as the new prototype of J20 with ws10B/X?
If no, then maybe it is a ws15 ? But it would be too early what we previously thought. 2020-2023 more likely.

Internally, it may be identical but the nozzles are definitely different. The WS-10X on the J-20s do not have TVC nozzles whereas this J-10 has TVC.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

Internally, it may be identical but the nozzles are definitely different. The WS-10X on the J-20s do not have TVC nozzles whereas this J-10 has TVC.

So maybe J20 is using the most improved ws-10, so then ws10 IPE (team C), and this new j10 ws10B with TVC (team B)?

And ws10A (team A) j11b.

 

[ougoah]

If this is indeed TVC rather than just WS-15 being tested or another variant of WS-10, I'm surprised J-20 and J-10 actually has much to gain from TVC at the expense of some thrust and increased complexity. I'm hoping this new nozzle belongs to WS-15 and its dimensions allow it to be used on J-10s.

 

[by78]

If this is indeed TVC rather than just WS-15 being tested or another variant of WS-10, I'm surprised J-20 and J-10 actually has much to gain from TVC at the expense of some thrust and increased complexity. I'm hoping this new nozzle belongs to WS-15 and its dimensions allow it to be used on J-10s.

There is little chance of this being the WS-15. It's too early for WS-15 to be flight tested, and moreover, flight-testing a new engine and TVC is a bit too much. This engine is in all likelihood a mature WS-10 variant with TVC bolted on. Since we've known for sometime that China was working on TVC, it was a matter of time before they rolled out a testbed to perfect the tech; and indeed they have.

 

[ougoah]

There is little chance of this being the WS-15. It's too early for WS-15 to be flight tested, and moreover, flight-testing a new engine and TVC is a bit too much. This engine is in all likelihood a mature WS-10 variant with TVC bolted on. Since we've known for sometime that China was working on TVC, it was a matter of time before they rolled out a testbed to perfect the tech; and indeed they have.

This is most likely the case here. However I never realised there was so much to gain from TVC. It's certainly a worthwhile technology to develop for future platforms but I can't see value in TVC engines for these CAC platforms. Why sacrifice thrust, increase cost, and reduce reliability, just for a quicker turn? Doesn't make sense to me but we're probably missing some pieces of the puzzle. Yes there will be future benefit to developing this technology. Who knows where TVC will take us one day. But supplying the J-10 and J-20 with them doesn't seem to fit how we understand the current status of PLAAF and its projects. J-10 and J-20 are agile and maneuverable fighters already. The best way to improve this is to increase thrust because turbofans used are weaker than ideal (talking about WS-10 for J-20 and AL-31 for J-10). All the evidence points to this idea of abandoning TVC for CAC fighters to be false. I'm just surprised they will end up installing TVC on these fighters.