J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Deino]

A J-10B + a J-20 (maybe 2001) seems to be at the CFTE

 

[Zhifu]

J-20 - high end stealth
J-31 - low end stealth
J-18 - does not exist
J-16 - strike flanker, I think J-11C is more appropriate

1,000 J-31? I don't know where you heard that. China hasn't even decided to induct J-31 yet but it's certainly not buying 1,000 J-10B either, especially with J-10C (possibly) around the corner. J-10, unfortunately does not have sufficient range for missions over much of the South China Sea and is not comfortably/ideally ranged for the Diaoyu islands so China may opt for longer-ranged fighters. But J-10 is a superb close-range point defense fighter and has more than enough range to cover Taiwan.

Possibly the Chinese want to be sure about the concept, the engineering, the technology and the need before rushing into a particular model. Keeping all its options and not spend all its bullets to regret later. (I am talking without inside knowledge)

 

[ladioussupp]

202 Is it PSed?

 

[Blackstone]

Looks like the first J-10Bs will use AL-31FN engines instead of WS-10s, what doesn't that say about availability and/or performance of the latter? I keep getting the nagging feeling something is wrong with the WS-10s.

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The latest 1035 prototype of the J-10B (K/JJ10B?) was photographed at CAC airfield in July 2011, revealing the indigenous WS-10B (?) turbofan engine. This much improved variant made its maiden flight on December 23, 2008, powered by a Russian AL-31FN engine (1031 prototype). The improvements include a DSI/bump engine inlet which not only cuts weight but also reduces RCS, after a similar design was first tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. The aircraft also features a J-11B style IRST/LR, a JF-17 style glass cockpit with a wide-angle holographic HUD, and an HMDS. The new IRST allows passive detection of enemy aircraft, making J-10B more stealthy in combat. Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, housing fire-control radar which could be an X-band AESA developed by the 14th Institute (track 10, engage 4 simultaneously), the first of such type ever being developed for a Chinese fighter aircraft, giving J-10B a stronger multi-target engagement and ECCM capability. It was rumored that initially the aircraft was planned to fit a PESA radar developed by the 607 Institute but in the end this proposal was rejected by PLAAF in favor of an AESA radar. An ECM antenna can also be seen right in front of the canard foreplane on 1035. Two large pods housing testing equipments were attached under the wings. The tip of vertical tailfin was redesigned as well, featuring a large fairing containing communication and ECM antennas, which resembles that of French Mirage 2000. A rear facing MAWS sensor can be seen underneath the parachute boom. A similar system was tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. RAM coating is also expected in certain areas such as engine inlet and wing leading edges to reduce RCS. All these improvements suggest that J-10B is equipped with a new generation of integrated electronic system, ranging from radar to EW system. Its mission may be changed from air-superiority to multi-role, such as CAS or EW. For air-superiority mission, normally 6 AAMs (PL-12x4 + PL-8x2, PL-12s are carried underneath the twin-rail launch pylon) can be carried. For CAS mission, normally 2 KD-88 AGMs or LS-500J LGBs can be carried. In addition, the aircraft is expected to be powered eventually by a WS-10B turbofan after its reliability issues have been resolved. Overall J-10B is thought to be comparable to American F-16E/Block 60. The 03 prototype (1033) first flew in August 2009, with the pitot tube removed from the nose tip. Both 1031 & 1034 prototypes have been tested at CFTE. J-10B is likely to serve as a testbed for various advanced technologies adopted by the 4th generation J-20 currently under development at CAC thus may not enter the service in large quantity with PLAAF. Recent images (March 2013) indicated that the 1031 prototype has been modified with ECM antennas installed ahead of the canard foreplanes similar to those onboard 1035, which represents the final configuration before the production. The production of J-10B finally started in 2013 after some delay, due to the availability of a suitable engine. The latest images (July 2014) indicated the 01 batch have been produced and are preparing for the delivery, possibly to the PLAAF Flight Test & Training Base. Meanwhile it was first rumored in June 2013 that a further upgraded semi-stealth multi-role variant (J-10C) with enhanced 4th generation electronics including a more powerful AESA radar, more composite material and a more powerful engine was under development. The J-10C #2-01 prototype took to the sky for the first time on December 31, 2013. The aircraft appears to have high similarity with J-10B except for a small yellow antenna ahead of its vertical tailfin. It was reported by Salut in April 2014 that the first batch of production J-10Bs would be powered by Russian AL-31FN Series-3 engines with a slightly improved performance.

 

[Equation]

Looks like the first J-10Bs will use AL-31FN engines instead of WS-10s, what doesn't that say about availability and/or performance of the latter? I keep getting the nagging feeling something is wrong with the WS-10s.

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Is that all just the first batch? Didn't one of our members "Engineer" mention something like that long time ago? And that the latter batches will be using WS-10 engines.

 

[tphuang]

We don't know when J-10B will use WS-10 series of engines. At this point, the testing with WS-10 simply hasn't finished or the engine is not deemed to yet have enough thrust for J-10B. Either way, it's been known for a while that J-10B is using the Series 3 FNs and I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[AeroEngineer]

We don't know when J-10B will use WS-10 series of engines. At this point, the testing with WS-10 simply hasn't finished or the engine is not deemed to yet have enough thrust for J-10B. Either way, it's been known for a while that J-10B is using the Series 3 FNs and I don't see anything wrong with that.

WS-10 will be used on the export J-10P variant to Pakistan !!!

However, for PLAAF. J-10B will use AL-31FM1 for a while. J-16, J-15, and J-11B will be using WS-10 series engines !!

 

[manqiangrexue]

We don't know when J-10B will use WS-10 series of engines. At this point, the testing with WS-10 simply hasn't finished or the engine is not deemed to yet have enough thrust for J-10B. Either way, it's been known for a while that J-10B is using the Series 3 FNs and I don't see anything wrong with that.

And also, Shenyang's Flankers have easier access (first dibs due to the maker of the engine being Shenyang itself rather than Chengdu) to the WS-10A than Chengdu's jets. When they can produce the engines fast enough to saturate the Flanker line (which they are not even close to yet), the extra can probably go to Chengdu. Meanwhile, deals on the new upgraded AL-31s seem too good to resist seeing as how China's market is unsaturated by China's own production speed so the purchase of AL-31 isn't competing with the WS-10A sale/production at all.

 

[A.Man]

They don't want you to know where it goes.

 

[Blackstone]

We don't know when J-10B will use WS-10 series of engines. At this point, the testing with WS-10 simply hasn't finished or the engine is not deemed to yet have enough thrust for J-10B. Either way, it's been known for a while that J-10B is using the Series 3 FNs and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Feng, what's your estimate of when WS-10x engines will be up to Western standards, or even high-end Russian AL-31xx series? I mean the whole package, performance, quality, manufacturabilty, endurance, and cost?