AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Here's a clearer shot of the first pic I think.
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J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)
- Thread starter crobato
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Can I make a daring speculation?
Is it possible China are reverse engineering AL-31F for its J-10 fleet?
As many point out, China has not import AL-31F for sometime and we are still seeing new J-10 being chunk out. Not to mention, old AL-31F dies off and new replacement. It's quite impossible they can chunk out new J-10 without buying new engines.
The only thing I can think of is RE the russian engines. As everybody knows WS-10 is based on CM56 core and is different from Al-31F. To China, WS-10A is something new that still needs many trials and time to prove its worth for a single engine aircraft. Installing on J-11B is logic since they don't expect 2 engines failure to occur at the same time.
As for AL-31F, it is a mature and proven engine and that all it needs is to RE every single parts and mass produced it and you have a reliable track to move on for J-10.
The only thing I can think of WS-10A to be continue developed is WS-10A spec like lifespan and performance is far superior than AL-31F. Which is why China still continue on WS-10A instead of just RE AL-31F to satisfy PLAAF.
Is it possible China are reverse engineering AL-31F for its J-10 fleet?
As many point out, China has not import AL-31F for sometime and we are still seeing new J-10 being chunk out. Not to mention, old AL-31F dies off and new replacement. It's quite impossible they can chunk out new J-10 without buying new engines.
The only thing I can think of is RE the russian engines. As everybody knows WS-10 is based on CM56 core and is different from Al-31F. To China, WS-10A is something new that still needs many trials and time to prove its worth for a single engine aircraft. Installing on J-11B is logic since they don't expect 2 engines failure to occur at the same time.
As for AL-31F, it is a mature and proven engine and that all it needs is to RE every single parts and mass produced it and you have a reliable track to move on for J-10.
The only thing I can think of WS-10A to be continue developed is WS-10A spec like lifespan and performance is far superior than AL-31F. Which is why China still continue on WS-10A instead of just RE AL-31F to satisfy PLAAF.
MwRYum
Major
Very unlikely that the Chinese made significant breakthrough in the WS-10A, or we'd already hearing them bragging about it really hard by now. The new units are those with the previous batches of AL-31F.
No new AL-31F could not be due to China won't need them anymore, it could also because the Russians just don't want to sell them. If what's on Kanwa is true, the Russians are very displeased with China in their reverse engineering activities, such as the J-11B and the J-15, as part of the China infringe the intellectual right of Russian weapons.
But it can hardly blame the Chinese though, just about everyone whom they gone to joint projects with - to be specific, when China is the party that receives better technologies - screws them over before the projects reach fruition...Russians did in the 60s, the West did in the 80-90s, even the Israeli screwed Chinese over the A-50I, fully paid and all...
While the concept is great I am not sure whether the PLAAF is actually doing this. I'm sure we'd hear from the Russians if such reverse engineering is happening.
not really sure. We are going to have to wait and see I guess. It's basically been 54 + 100 + 122 = 276. There could be more that was used in the original prototypes and such. Based on their past practice, they can produce 4 regiments with their most recent order of 122 (or 128 in some reports) AL-31FNs. And thus far, they only had 2 new regiments (24th division and 9th division) + August first demonstration team.
kanwa is a piece of junk in their analysis. China has no problem buying what they need from the Russians. All the noise we hear are just Russian complaints.
As for WS-10A, the ones for J-11B are ready. FWS-10A for J-10 just needs time to mature. If it reaches acceptable maturity and has better price/power than AL-31FN, plaaf will use it. It's that simple.
WS-10A is just taking time to get ready that's all. Why would they reverse engineer AL-31FN, doesn't even make any sense? Do you have a clue how long that it takes?
WS-10A is part of Chinese effort develop its local turbofan industry, because China can't depend on the Russians. It is needed to power future variants of J-10, J-11 and beginning batch of 5th gen fighter. It will be continuously improved.
Make a note that just because WS-10A is available, that does not necessarily mean plaaf will use it. If AL-31FN gives better performance at good price, there is no reason to not buy more of it.
EDIATH
Junior Member
About Russian's displeasure in J11, as we know AL-31F and AL-31FN are not exactly exchangeable, they can certainly keep on selling AL-31FN without worrying about inadvertly contributing to J11 programme.
On the other hand, it would take extra effort for CAC to equip J10A with WS10A as it comes with different dimensions from AL-31FN. I'm looking forward to seeing WS-10
series used for the mass-production of J10B in the upcoming years.
On the other hand, it would take extra effort for CAC to equip J10A with WS10A as it comes with different dimensions from AL-31FN. I'm looking forward to seeing WS-10
series used for the mass-production of J10B in the upcoming years.
MwRYum
Major
Russians know that Chinese effort would grind to a dead stop without Russian engines, so they just stop the whole lot to show the Chinese to "urge" them to get back in line. It's similar to what they did back in the 60s.
As long as the WS-10 series and the FWS-10 still can't meet the performance of the Russian products - which is already inferior to the Western products - Chinese can't go without the Russian supplies...certainly that'd get the Chinese worried, for they have been screwed over so many times by the Russians and the West.
But as long as the Chinese can't make any breakthrough in the material, fabrication and electronics technologies, that's where it'd stand - it's not the Chinese can't come up with good aircraft designs, but lacking in all those 3 departments means their products were nothing but trash until they could catch up.
The WS-10A is already undergoing mass production, so the WS-10A version for J-10's shouldn't be too far behind. I don't see why the Russians wouldn't want to make a few dollars before that happens. Chances are though, that China already has enough AL-31's to last them until the WS-10A is modified for J-10 use.
Here's an article referring to this development(it's in Chinese):
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