It's finally done-The Three Gorges Dam

well im not popeye, but we know how he'll appear randomly to deliver a message then disappear. in this case i'll do his part. let's try and stay on the gorges dam and avoid too much politics otherwise this awesome thread, with all the juicy meaningful informative opinions from u guys, will get locked. then that'll be a pity

bladerunner said:

@ Vesicles Engineer Victodd & others

Whoa & No No No. Lets retrace our steps on this matter.

Aside from the dam being to difficult a target to be attacked, Right from the get go I put forward a suggestion, that should the dam be regarded as a strategic target, Im sure steps would have been taken to convey this to the Chinese, and the steps they could take to avoid it being attacked, and the possibly of wholesale destruction.
You guys have dismissed this suggestion and merely concentrated on the Dam being destroyed in an attack and the response its likely to take, justifying the use of a nuclear respone along the way.

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Should the dam be regarded as a strategic target? What are you talking about? Of course the dam is being regarded as a strategic target, and being regarded as a legitimate one, because the killing of hundreds of millions of unarmed civilians in China would magically not be a war crime, if and should the attack on the dam happens.

What steps has China taken to avoid the dam being attacked? Definitely what many posters have pointed out already: a threat with the use of nukes.

bladerunner said:

In this I disagree with a more likely secnario in the Chinese taking up the possible attackers offer.

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And the reality is that's what many people in the West believe. Even if it were an actual attack which causes hundred of millions of deaths in China, every Chinese is somehow suppose to smile and embrace it with open arms. We have already seen this happened on a small scale in the riots in 2008 and 2009.

bladerunner said:

I say this because ( I tried to find the original source for the Generals name, without any luck but some of you guys might remember). One of Chinas top Generals stated that China was not capable of winning a war with America now or in the immediate future, so armed with knowledge this I think the CCP will be very careful on the tactics employed, and certainly not nuclear, despite the rhetoric.
In the aftermath of the fighting when the spin and "Victors justice" kicks in, and all that
I think China will be painted in a very bad light.

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In a nuclear winter when the days of humanity are numbered, people can spin all they want. Literally, nobody would give a flying fk.

Engineer said:

In a nuclear winter when the days of humanity are numbered, people can spin all they want. Literally, nobody would give a flying fk.

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Maybe the events in Fallout 3 started because the US bombed the 3-gorges dam.

bladerunner said:

@ Vesicles Engineer Victodd & others

In this I disagree with a more likely secnario in the Chinese taking up the possible attackers offer.

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Are you serious?

You think blackmailing will work on Chinese?

You think this 1839 again? http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gif.

So now US can said if China don't revalue currency by 50%, they will B2 the dam? You think China or Chinese will take that 'Offer'. Is this how Westerns thinks?

The Gist of what Im saying is an attack on the dam can be avoided, and not necessarily throughthe threat of a nuclear retaliation ... i feel sure an empty dam will no longer be a target.

@ravenshield936

yea but the idea here is the 3 gorges dam. it only generates power. and bladerunner im sure u're pretty familiar with the ideas that china isn't a nation that will go invade the west for any reasons right

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No Im sure it won't, but then again a friendly reminder to Beijing that this planet is called Earth not the PRC. wouldnt be such a bad idea.

Actually I couldnt give a tinkers/ damn about the pride of the Chinese nation, if the death of several hundred million people is the price you have to pay.

and it's sad that the thinking of some chinese forum members hasn't progressed very much since the days of Mao or Madam Chiang who both urged Nuclear Conflagration.

bladerunner said:

The Gist of what Im saying is an attack on the dam can be avoided, and not necessarily throughthe threat of a nuclear retaliation ... i feel sure an empty dam will no longer be a target.

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Of course, we get the gist of what you are saying -- any blame would place squarely on China regardless of what it is. Just like it is Chinese fault for saving too much and causing the financial crisis, or Chinese consuming too much and causing environmental damage. Anything is Chinese's fault. If 9/11 happens in China, it is Chinese's fault for making buildings so tall. The West regards China to be at fault this very moment merely for its existence, hence it is imperative for China to arm itself to the teeth to remind everyone that this planet is called Earth, which is belonged to all and not the sole property of the West.

bladerunner said:

if the death of several hundred million people is the price you have to pay.

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Indeed, that is how the West looks at Chinese -- if hundreds of millions are killed, it is a non-issue.

bladerunner said:

and it's sad that the thinking of some chinese forum members hasn't progressed very much since the days of Mao or Madam Chiang who both urged Nuclear Conflagration.

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It isn't something that US won't do, but what's more important is that you need to wake up from your fantasy and realize that blackmail won't work on China precisely because of nukes. If there is one thing that Mao did right, it is that he had the foresight to lead China into developing the bomb before it becomes too late.

Finn McCool said:

Well, it's finally done. It took a long time, and I think China made the wrong decision. It's not worth moving as many people as they moved and destroying as many things as they did. But if oil goes much higher, I'll have to change my mind.

Undoubtedly the dam is a massive enginnering feat. Most people do not think of building a dam, even one this size, as a technological achivement but it is. It helps build an experienced corps and culture of enginering with applications in other areas.

PS-I don't know if this is in the right place; you can move it if you want but I didn't think it belongned in the Club Room.

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I believe we should immediately get back to the topic and direction that Finn McCool established with this thread.

This is a monumental engineering accomplishment, and it represents tremendous advancement for the Chinese in terms of power production, flood control, and navigation along the river.

Clearly, any military talk if for scenarios that would represent all-out war between the countries involved and are speculation on our part. Any such war terrible enough to contemplate the type of impact resulting from an attack on this structure would have necessarily (IMHO) already advanced to a point where horrendous casualties and destruction (similar to WW II IMHO) on both sides were already occurring.

The side attacking would be doing so to try and break the will of a united Chinese people in such a war by inflicting horrible damage on them like the allies did to the Germans and the Japanese to end that war. The side receiving such an attack (the Chinese) would necessarily respond with everything they had at the time, including nuclear weapons. And understandably so.

IMHO, those facts/issues are self evident and we should leave it at that.

Those prospects are not what we should be focusing on at this time with this dam. I would urge everyone to focus on the monumental achievement this dam represents...and perhaps also talk about the sacrifices the Chinese people made to achieve it.

I'm not a moderator...but lets try and get back to posting pictures of the dam, pictures of the reservoir behind it, how it effected the Chinese people to build it, and how it is effecting them for the good now that it is done.

If we do not, I fear that an opportunity to discuss one of the most impressive engineering feats in the world will be lost in a war of words, and ultimately a closing of this thread over the nationalistic/militaristic argueing that is developing.

For numerous GREAT pictures of the dam, both during construction and after completion, see my post 22 on this thread

Jeff sez..

I believe we should immediately get back to the topic and direction that Finn McCool established with this thread.

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And...

I'm not a moderator...but lets try and get back to posting pictures of the dam, pictures of the reservoir behind it, how it effected the Chinese people to build it, and how it is effecting them for the good now that it is done.

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Wisdom & maturity speaks the truth..

Get back on topic!!

bd popeye super moderator and Grand Pubah

Engineer said:

blackmail won't work on China .

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Point accepted.




Getting back to the dam: Sources outside and within China acknowledge that not only is there problems with the dam but the ecological effects as well, and because of this , it wasnt operating at its full potential.

Is there any recent news on whether they've come closer to solving it?

bladerunner said:

Getting back to the dam: Sources outside and within China acknowledge that not only is there problems with the dam but the ecological effects as well, and because of this , it wasnt operating at its full potential.

Is there any recent news on whether they've come closer to solving it?

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According to , power generation is nearing original prediction, and will actually exceed it by 18% once all generators are complete.

Keep in mind that electricity generation is only a part of the dam's function. Another vital function is flood control. Before the damn was constructed, annual flooding took tremendous tolls on both the economy and on human lives. Being able to prevent such disasters is just as important, if not more so, than generating power.

I also find so-called environmentalists who criticize the dam for its ecological impact to be quite short-sighted. The dam's negative ecological impact is mostly a matter of changing the physical landscape. The land will adapt and flourish again, just in a different shape. However, the dam's contribution to the environment through the generation of clean energy will last for as long as the dam stands.