It's finally done-The Three Gorges Dam

bladerunner said:

( Shaking my head in Wonderment) For Christ sake man,you need to read all the posts since you last visited so you dont go off half cocked all the time. If you had done so , you will notice another poster had ignored the mods request and raised a point from the banned area of discussion You didnt appear to have a problem with that remark then, so why are you getting your knickers in a twist about it now now? By the way deliberately taking things out of context and being sarcastic, isnt being overly constructive.

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Why are you being so sensitive? I'm merely applying your logic here: in the process of building a city, thousands upon thousands of trees were cut down, and dozen of marshlands were filled. If you consider such level of environment damage can be rectified by modernizing the city (ie. making it greener by planting a few trees), then I have a hard time seeing why you make such a fuzz over the Three Gorges Dam, especially when we consider the fact that hydroelectric is a form of clean energy.

bladerunner said:

Can you care to enlighten us
You re the only one so far, thats pointed out the dams doing more harm than good so what are your suggestions.

May I suggest you read posts 2-11 before framing your answer

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Huh? I'm the one who suggested the dam is doing more harms than good? So you are saying you are not suggesting the dam to be taken down due to your perceived harms being done by the dam, but are merely saying so to spite other members of this forum?

bladerunner said:

Its pretty much a fact that everyone acts out of self interest

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Yep. Hence every time I see people acting like they are protecting the interests of others, I have to raise an eyebrow.

Jeff Head said:

Speaking of improvements to dams, here are some pictures of a little known, major engineering feat in America at Hoover Dam. It is the Hoover Dam Bypass bridge...constructed to allow greater traffic flow past the dam, and for security reasons.

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Scary place to work!

Engineer said:

Why are you being so sensitive? I'm merely applying your logic here: in the process of building a city, thousands upon thousands of trees were cut down, and dozen of marshlands were filled. If you consider such level of environment damage can be rectified by modernizing the city (ie. making it greener by planting a few trees), then I have a hard time seeing why you make such a fuzz over the Three Gorges Dam, especially when we consider the fact that hydroelectric is a form of clean energy.

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OVERSIMPLIFICATION

Huh? I'm the one who suggested the dam is doing more harms than good? So you are saying you are not suggesting the dam to be taken down due to your perceived harms being done by the dam, but are merely saying so to spite other members of this forum?

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I gave what I considered to be a honest opinion free of any hidden agendas, in reply to the question about options. In doing so I think I have unthinkingly transgressed cultural sensitivies and for which I truly apologise.


Below is what you said in an earlier reply. To me, It reads like you belive it does more harm then good

Engineer "So sunk cost isn't a consideration? In any case, tell us about the correct action when there are actually scientific evidences pointing outthe dam does more harm than good."

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Yep. Hence every time I see people acting like they are protecting the interests of others, I have to raise an eyebrow.

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And whose interests in this case that I think you mistakenly believe Im protecting?

bladerunner said:

And whose interests in this case that I think you mistakenly believe Im protecting?

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Pal, give it a break, will you?
You are arguing this thread into death, you are not a lawyer, are you?:roll:

Engineer said:

Scary place to work!

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Yep...those heights are something else. Here's a couple of shots of guys working on the anchors for some of those large supports.





I work a lot with dams here in the US and their construction and maintenance are monumental tasks.

Last year there was a horrible accident in Russia. A 900 ton turbine at the Sayano-Shushenskaya plant − the largest power-plant in Russia and the sixth-largest in the world − was ripped from its seating by water hammer pressure, destroyinh the concrete turbine house and floor where it resided. Within seconds, a deluge of water flooded the facility’s turbine hall causing a huge transformer explosion. 75 people were killed.

I have seen the internal reports on this failure. There were many large nuts on the bolts that hold the turbine down that were not completely tightened to spec. There were several that were not even on. Numerous reports from workers pointed out the deficinecies and the problems...many of which were ignored becuase of bedgetary concerns.

This poor maintenance over a period of time, and then improper switching which overloaded the system and left that turbine in a critical vibration mode for far too long led to the failure.











So, once the investment is made, it is a continuing investment in order to maintain the plant in top functioning order and to avoid such catastrophes.

Jeff Head said:

I have seen the internal reports on this failure. There were many large nuts on the bolts that hold the turbine down that were not completely tightened to spec. There were several that were not even on. Numerous reports from workers pointed out the deficinecies and the problems...many of which were ignored becuase of bedgetary concerns.

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It's always the same story. Management refuses to allocate money for critical repairs, and after a while, a catastrophic accident happens. People never learn.

Now they will have to spend a fortune to rebuild the turbine hall.

How is the power market to the end consumer? Through a state owned agency or a group of privately owend power retail companies?

Engineer said:

It's always the same story. Management refuses to allocate money for critical repairs, and after a while, a catastrophic accident happens. People never learn.

Now they will have to spend a fortune to rebuild the turbine hall.

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Very tough situation for the Russinas. It's their biggest hydro-electric...but they are absolutely budget strapped.

Caught between lowering power and trying to get increases in budget. But the maintenance lapses are inexcusable. They ended up costing 75 lives...and the operation of the plant.

Crazy. Between not even having the anchors and tie downs in place...and between operating that unit for ungodly amounts of times right at the highest vibration frequency (and way above spec)...and keeping it there for so long, withou any SCADA indication that they were even there...it's not only amazing, but, IMHO, criminally negligent.

Plants all over the world have taken note. Clearly, far, far better to have shut that unit down and kept it down (along with any others) and gotten everything repaired and back to spec, than to have experienced what they did.

You can bet the operators, plant mechanics, electricians, electronics specialists and management at 3 Gorges have taken note and will ensure that they avoid such catastrophic and inexcusable conditions.