Issues on Intercepting Hypersonic Missile.

man overbored said:

Once they come down to the sea surface they slow down well below mach 2. The technology is not there to make a hypersonic anti-ship missile.!

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Brahmos is mach4 isn't it? it's an antiship missile.
Even if it can't like you mentioned consider this, flying at high mach at high attitude, at this terminal phase, the missile will dive and shoot straight down , it's own acceleration+ force of gravity.
If it's Mach 6 missile, with aid of the gravity it might achieve Mach8-Mach9 during terminal dive down phase.

Maybe this is the better way to go, during its high attitude flight it will have better chance against interception.

lilzz said:

Brahmos is mach4 isn't it? it's an antiship missile.
Even if it can't like you mentioned consider this, flying at high mach at high attitude, at this terminal phase, the missile will dive and shoot straight down , it's own acceleration+ force of gravity.
If it's Mach 6 missile, with aid of the gravity it might achieve Mach8-Mach9 during terminal dive down phase.

Maybe this is the better way to go, during its high attitude flight it will have better chance against interception.

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no sorry brahmos is about mach ~2.9 max about 3+ times faster then harpoon...gravity acceleration eventually levels out and the increasing velocity begins to slow and then slow to constant velocity it doesnt keep increasing...

im assuming you do know that mach9 is 10, 739km/h or 2983m/s so if brahmos has max range say 290km it would take 1min 39 secs for it reach 290km....(think this right, hope my physics isn't too rusty)

PrOeLiTeZ said:

..gravity acceleration eventually levels out and the increasing velocity begins to slow and then slow to constant velocity it doesnt keep increasing...

im assuming you do know that mach9 is 10, 739km/h or 2983m/s so if brahmos has max range say 290km it would take 1min 39 secs for it reach 290km....(think this right, hope my physics isn't too rusty)

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This gravitational acceleration is concept for the hypersonic missile I am proposing at this thread, it's not meant for Brahmos.

Why would it slow to constand velocity? R U thinking freefall and reach terminal velocity? Well, this is not just free fall, its missile buring fuel to acclerate downward + the force of gravity. It will continue to accelerate as long as there are fuel to burn.

lilzz said:

This gravitational acceleration is concept for the hypersonic missile I am proposing at this thread, it's not meant for Brahmos.

Why would it slow to constand velocity? R U thinking freefall and reach terminal velocity? Well, this is not just free fall, its missile buring fuel to acclerate downward + the force of gravity. It will continue to accelerate as long as there are fuel to burn.

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the change in atmospheric pressure alters the amount of fuel being burnt, the higher the altitude the thinner the air becomes, reverse when lower the altitude the thicker the air becomes.... sorry yeah was thinking of freefal for terminal velocity told you my physics was rusty ^.-

I would think maneuverbility is more important (of course, this's about the subject of evasion only and not about the missile's effectiveness.) than speed or acceleration if the missile is coming directly at the target. (Which has to be the case during the terminal phase, albeit starting at a farther distance away for a speedier missile.) A missile coming directly at a target does not have much sideways movement in relation to the target. i.e. less error correction to be made. I doubt the weight of the missile contribute much to the final speed of the missile. What is more, with the angle of attack being much more horizontal than vertical. i.e. not coming exactly straight down. What is the thrust to weight of the missile anyway?

All nice future wishes, but I guess by the time a hypersonic AShM is operational, there will also be DEW weapons (on the big ships). Then high speed is again rendered rather useless, once you're easily seen by flying high or glowing like a meteroid.

I don't see being hypersonic an important issue in the future of AshMs. I see stealth, as in RCS reduction, as well as thermal reduction, an issue. I also see part of the stealth equation, the use of LPI, such as spread spectrum, frequency agility, pulse compression and sidelobe suppression. I see something like the German Taurus in mind.

man overbored said:

The math is written by some of the best engineers ( not programmers but experienced engineers ) in the business based on our observations of threat systems in operation.

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LOL. They must be mighty good engineers to predict the future.

Look, let's not let exaggerations blind us to reality. There's no way to predict the trajectory of a target doing a randomized corkscrew or weave.

And there's no reason why a randomized end-game maneuver sequence cannot be programmed in to an anti-ship missile. Just because the US doesn't exercise with them doesn't mean they don't exist!

tphuang said:

all you need to is to have a missile explode near the AShM, the impact of blast will knock the AShM into a different path, possibly into the ocean. And think about this, if something pierces or does something to a supersonic missile from 1 km out, that may damage its seeker, that may knock it from its path. You don't even need a full connection to render an AShM useless.

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Yes of course anything "may" happen, depending on how lucky the defending ship is.

Still, the brute fact is that a small-caliber bullet from a CIWS does not have enough mass to alter the trajectory of an anti-ship missile when the missile is within 1 km.

Roger604 said:

LOL. They must be mighty good engineers to predict the future.

Look, let's not let exaggerations blind us to reality. There's no way to predict the trajectory of a target doing a randomized corkscrew or weave.

And there's no reason why a randomized end-game maneuver sequence cannot be programmed in to an anti-ship missile. Just because the US doesn't exercise with them doesn't mean they don't exist!



Yes of course anything "may" happen, depending on how lucky the defending ship is.

Still, the brute fact is that a small-caliber bullet from a CIWS does not have enough mass to alter the trajectory of an anti-ship missile when the missile is within 1 km.

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Using the high speed tracking and communication capabilities of the AEGIS (or similar) system, coupled with the agility of the missile, and the proximity blast of its warhead, a good AAW missile can counteract a random flying attack missile.

No need to predict the future. It is where it is in each instant of time and the processing and communicating capabilities of the tracking systems are nearly instantaneously communicated so the defending missile can adjust its course accordingly.

If ithe attacking missile flies too extremely, it will miss its target, so there is a realtive small window for adjustment the closer it gets in to target. But, even in that case, the defending missile will follow it anyway within the parameters of its fuel, and still go after it should it turn back. If it stays relatively on course to impact, there is a very good likelihood that the defending missile will get close enough with its proximity blast to completely destroy it or damage it and deflect it.

The US Navy conducts training in just these types of scenarios...and with AEGIS, standard missiles and RAM, has a good operational track record of defeating targets that mimic what potential adversaries are producing, and, I might add, what they are likly to produce. They do not stop at just what they know is out there.

Anyhow, let's all hope and pray that such exercises remain just that and that the premise does not have to be tested in real life conflict.

Jeff Head said:

Using the high speed tracking and communication capabilities of the AEGIS (or similar) system, coupled with the agility of the missile, and the proximity blast of its warhead, a good AAW missile can counteract a random flying attack missile.

No need to predict the future. It is where it is in each instant of time and the processing and communicating capabilities of the tracking systems are nearly instantaneously communicated so the defending missile can adjust its course accordingly.
.

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Man overbored said they only excercised missile up to 2.5Mach. Missile will higher Mach is unknown.

Are you saying there's no prediction involed, well that's wrong, Even Man overbored also said the prediction program was written experienced engineer.

Priediction is involved in every interception and you can't get away from that doesn't matter how sophisticated your computer and hardwares are.

When your sensor detect target at point A, then you not going to shoot at point A, you need to predict next point B, and shoot at B instead of A.
You can't get away from the fundamentals.