Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Operations within Gaza takes 10s thousands of personnel. While Lebanon remains at cross border raid levels. Israel is a tiny country, pretty much all of its non-strategic assets are being utilised one way or another. It is enough to call it large scale.


Ground forces are causing a tiny fraction of total casualties. You can complain about individual soldiers doing war crimes all day long, a single apartment building being brought down will cause a multitude more death and destruction. For as long as Israel is able to conduct air operations unimpeded, there is no 'winning'.

Tens of thousands of civilians have already perished. Trading that even for a few thousand Israeli casualties seems like pointless celebration.
Israel has a conscript army, and it is quite possible to simply run them out of supplies and willing fighters. Middle 10ks of friendly losses to low 10ks of enemy losses is rather sustainable for a long time by the Arab side.
Infact I ask many in this thread, what does the end goal look like for this pointless conflict?
It is not pointless to bury invaders that may become a future international problem somewhere else.
The end of Israel is not a realistic outcome,
The current conflict is just a prologue. Both Israel and the Muslim world are able to call in their own trump cards, these insurgent actions are meant to set up a favorable ground position for an all out war or enforced diplomatic solution later.

If US becomes unable to commit, the end of Israel is a very realistic outcome. If US commits on the other hand, the US itself is very much at risk.

In reality it's not about ending Israel, it's about containing US influence in the middle east.
those wishing to prolong the conflict rather than hoping for a ceasefire is basically doing what people complain about in the other conflict threads, bleeding Gaza dry for clout.
Ceasefire is also good. I'm foretelling you that China would be willing to overlook everything Israel has done as long as Israel concedes it's US ties, like Saudis and Iran did.

Most likely that will happen once Israel is too damaged economically and militarily while US stands unable to significantly help, there will be Israel-Iran-Saudi trilateral peace under China.

We're letting both Israel, Gaza and even the sunni regimes such as Jordan and Lebanon bleed eachother dry to make a point: that being a dog of US only causes death and economic collapse.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Infact I ask many in this thread, what does the end goal look like for this pointless conflict?
Keep the Palestine conflict alive for as long as possible so that if a time comes when the US is not able to prop up Israel anymore, they can be defeated.

The objective of Hamas was to make it impossible for the Arab states to ignore them and make peace with Israel. As long as another generation of Palestinians will come in the future, it's a victory. If they cause some Jews in the west to abandon the idea of becoming a settler in their lands, that's a bonus

For the Israelis, it's only a victory if they can destroy Hamas and equivalent organisations, which is essentially impossible with how they're conducting the war
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Keep the Palestine conflict alive for as long as possible so that if a time comes when the US is not able to prop up Israel anymore, they can be defeated.

The objective of Hamas was to make it impossible for the Arab states to ignore them and make peace with Israel. As long as another generation of Palestinians will come in the future, it's a victory. If they cause some Jews in the west to abandon the idea of becoming a settler in their lands, that's a bonus

For the Israelis, it's only a victory if they can destroy Hamas and equivalent organisations, which is essentially impossible with how they're conducting the war
So in essence, fight the west to the last Palestinian, I'm glad we made that position clear.

We would skip hundreds of pages of crying foul about the suffering of civilians if we just put that part in bold on the first page.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
So in essence, fight the west to the last Palestinian, I'm glad we made that position clear.

We would skip hundreds of pages of crying foul about the suffering of civilians if we just put that part in bold on the first page.
That's the objective of the Palestinian people. If they want to make peace and leave the area and hand it over to Jewish state, then that's their decision
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
That was a figure of speech! GEEZ! A win is when a force destroys another or force the opposing team to capitulate.
The NVA had ZERO chance of winning over the US forces. Their military were pretty much decimated. The US had total control over the skies of both South and North Vietnam and flew with impunity after the very early phases of the war when the NVAF MiGs put up a good fight..
The US loses while significant was also much less than NVA and Viet Cong.
The US did not lose Vietnam. South Vietnam lost Vietnam.
My friend, I am afraid that you have bought and or been inflicted by the Westmoreland disease a.k.a. bean counting of how many "gooks" were killed vs U.S. of South Vietnam losses. Which gave the American people the wrong impression and information of how the actual war and reality on the ground in Vietnam was unfolding.

It's both amusing and disheartening to read the intellectual, or purportedly intellectual, arguments made by many retired U.S. Army officers who served in the Vietnam War. They often place the blame on their own Army leadership, suggesting that these leaders failed to challenge their civilian superiors to devise a sound strategy that would have ensured American victory. They frequently cite the much-overhyped adage of General MacArthur, "There is no substitute for victory," as their familiar motto.

In reality, unless the U.S. was willing to fully mobilize against North Vietnam or use nuclear weapons to annihilate its population—actions that would have necessitated World War III—there was no victory in sight. China and the Soviet Union ensured this outcome.
 

gullible

Junior Member
Operations within Gaza takes 10s thousands of personnel. While Lebanon remains at cross border raid levels. Israel is a tiny country, pretty much all of its non-strategic assets are being utilised one way or another. It is enough to call it large scale.


Ground forces are causing a tiny fraction of total casualties. You can complain about individual soldiers doing war crimes all day long, a single apartment building being brought down will cause a multitude more death and destruction. For as long as Israel is able to conduct air operations unimpeded, there is no 'winning'.

Tens of thousands of civilians have already perished. Trading that even for a few thousand Israeli casualties seems like pointless celebration.

Infact I ask many in this thread, what does the end goal look like for this pointless conflict? The end of Israel is not a realistic outcome, those wishing to prolong the conflict rather than hoping for a ceasefire is basically doing what people complain about in the other conflict threads, bleeding Gaza dry for clout.
the end point will be israel is gonna win this hamas-hezbollah tribal conflict albeit at the cost of northern israel & a slightly weakeaning of the nation.
Ultimately the current conflict will lead to armageddon...where israel will take a huge losses of lives but miracle will happen that it survives but not by its own power....
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
The UN is now assisting the IDF inside Lebanon.

A civilian ship captain, Imad Fadel Amhaz, was kidnapped by special forces of the Israeli Navy in the Lebanese coastal city of Batroun, supported by the German UN contingent stationed there, as well as unidentified men in civilian clothing, likely members of the Israeli Mossad

It is unknown why Imad Fadel Amhaz was kidnapped. Lebanese media confirm that he is a captain of commercial shipping, not a part of the Lebanese Navy. Some sources claim he is a high-ranking Hezbollah commander, but there is no proof for this. Batroun has no Hezbollah presence, it is a Christian-majority city. The event is very mysterious.
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An Israeli Sa'ar-5 class guided-missile corvette is passing through the Suez Canal under the protection of the Egyptian navy, the ship is flying the flags of Israel and Egypt side by side
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Earlier this morning, a Hezbollah suicide drone struck an Israeli military factory north of Nahariyya
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Ground forces are causing a tiny fraction of total casualties. You can complain about individual soldiers doing war crimes all day long, a single apartment building being brought down will cause a multitude more death and destruction. For as long as Israel is able to conduct air operations unimpeded, there is no 'winning'.

Tens of thousands of civilians have already perished. Trading that even for a few thousand Israeli casualties seems like pointless celebration.

Infact I ask many in this thread, what does the end goal look like for this pointless conflict? The end of Israel is not a realistic outcome, those wishing to prolong the conflict rather than hoping for a ceasefire is basically doing what people complain about in the other conflict threads, bleeding Gaza dry for clout.
This forum has no control over What Palestinians do on their land. I haven't seen anyone here on this thread speak in favour of prolonging this massacre, only that many stand in solidarity with the resistance. The Palestinians, Hezbollah, and the Yemenis have all tried to negotiate a permanent ceasefire to no avail. What exactly do you want them to do, give up and bend over backwards for the occupation? They refuse to do that whether the outcome of ending Israel is realistic or not.

The unabated airstrikes you are referring to, have to actually hit military installations, not condominiums, mosques and hospitals. Otherwise it won't be a win for the West either.

The longer this goes on, the more the West gets isolated as they stand shoulder to shoulder with their brothers and sisters in Israel. This time it is all documented in full HD and 4k and it will be with us here forever. This will have far reaching consequences for many generations to come. The hate and resentment for the US and their allies will be inherited from generation to generation, and the only way to stop it is to go full throttle fascistic in an attempt to control the narrative (which we already see taking place), which will demoralize, confuse and divide the masses in the West (Which we also see happening). It has also put on full display what the West is all about in their lack of unity and social cohesion (Psyoped to us as "American individualism") with hundreds of millions of them outright supporting erasing an entire people just so their baby Jesus shows up, such as the Christian Zionist types that love to exercise their "freedom of expression and association" by sporting Nazi and Crusaders insignia (and the newly inaugurated Houthi hunting club insignia) in order to pay homage to their real roots. The fact that the West is busy dumping all their money on wars and death dealing while their infrastructure decays and economies shrink, their international courts and human rights protection mechanisms erode, and while other continents such as Asia and Africa build their economies away from this inhumanity, establishing real alternatives to the Western technological dominance, will further accelerate the utter Western failure that is sure to come in the near future, as well as pave the way for new non Western international bodies to be established, replacing the the joke that is the UN along with all its fake off-springs.


If this isn't a win for the Palestinians, then nothing is, because the only alternative is to exist in an open air prison not allowed to build their futures and barely surviving and humiliated by bare minimum foreign aid.
 
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_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
CIA infiltration into Lebanon: Iraqi Airways blocked from landing in Beirut, aid must flow through Jordan; Washington threatens sanctions on Middle East Airlines if they fly wounded out of Lebanon for medical treatment


Top hit on APC

Accident or deliberate? Look at the size of the explosion on the ground. Iron Dome's Tamir missile is supposed to have a 11kg warhead.

Hezbollah rockets make impact in Tel Aviv


MOD EDIT - Deleted personal bickering
 
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tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
If this isn't a win for the Palestinians, then nothing is, because the only alternative is to exist in an open air prison not allowed to build their futures and barely surviving and humiliated by bare minimum foreign aid.
It's not a win to live in 3rd world conditions for 70 years and get spent as cheap currency by supposed allies. I think people really need to seperate grand strategy from realities on the ground.

Despite unpopularity, gulf states have allowed Israeli unfettered access to their airspace to strike at lebenon and Iran. This would be unthinkable even 30 years ago. If anything Israeli position in the ME has only solidified.

Crown prince of SA really just said out loud what many ME leaders think. Palestine is simply not an important issue for them, just a useful tool to stoke some fervour amongst the population, It is also a useful bargaining chip when dealing with the US.

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MOD EDIT - Deleted uncessary China discussion
 
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sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Shocking /s

The role of Germany in enabling the Israelis in their ethnic cleansing has been despicable, to say the least.
What exactly do you want them to do, give up and bend over backwards for the occupation? They refuse to do that whether the outcome of ending Israel is realistic or not.
Its funny because the same people telling the Palestinians to give up, take the L and get cleansed quietly are usually the same people opposed to Ukraine surrendering and negotiating a settlement.

You only have the right to "resist" whatever means necessary if you are white or represent western interests.
 
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