Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)
- Thread starter phrozenflame
- Start date
I think this is an older video. Could swear that I saw this pre-pandemic.
Damage in Ashkelon..
Hebrew Channel 14: Casualties reported in Ashkelon
So yesterday I listened to a podcast by Wojciech Szewko and I will make a short summary because I found it very relevant and informative.
He is a specialist in international relations with a focus on jihadism and Middle East. Unfortunately his commentary is available only in Polish because he is not a media person. He worked in government institutions including as an advisor to the PM of Poland, and was associated with Polish social democrats (SdPL/SLD). He also knows Arabic so he can draw on local sources.
You can translate the webpage to see his credentials:
I always pay attention to what he has to say, because he always brings an interesting perspective, especially since 2015 the media narratives in Poland have gradually shifted to replicate American and British propaganda. Even if I disagree on something I found him to be always helpful and constructive.
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1. CONFLICT
There are two dimensions of the conflict involving Israel:
The business model is selling jihad which is best understood as a contemporary analogue to medieval crusades, not the initial Arab conquests. It is a recapture of Muslim holy land taken over by infidels.
2. ISRAEL
Israel's primary interest is secular and its core institutions - both government and military/security are secular in nature. The religious aspect of Zionism has only recently emerged as a leading force due to the fallout of the political and demographic evolution of the country over many decades. It will only become more prominent over time as birth rates are falling except in the religious demographics.
Religious interest is full displacement of non-Jewish population and transforming of Israel into a monoreligious regime. The recent scandal with Haredi spitting on Christians is an example of the mentality.
A major problem is the recent judical reform which put Israel's Supreme Court under the control of Knesset giving the minister control over personnel which until recently were protected from political intervention by the Supreme Court. This means that "secular" personnel in military/intel can be replaced by "religious" personnel. Revisionist Zionism (Likud) is "secular". Religious Zionism (Shas etc) and Jewish Supremacism (Otzma Yehudit etc) are "religious". This is new left-right paradigm which replaced the former based on Labour vs Revisionist Zionism.
Minister of Justice responsible for the reform - Itama Ben-Gvir (Otzma Yehudit) - is widely hated and will be used as a scapegoat by Netanyahu (Likud) who has a personal stake in avoiding prosecution.
3. HAMAS
Hamas is a Islamic jihadist organisation first, and Palestinian nationalist organisation second.
The codename of Hamas' operation is "Al-Aqsa flood" thus framing it primarily in jihadist terms.
Hamas has been created by Mossad to undermine secular Fatah/PLO and that stigma still persists in the broader Muslim/Arab community even though Hamas has been independent since late 1980s/First Intifada. Nevertheless until the Second Intifada there was an unspoken cooperation between Israeli intelligence and Hamas as both sought to diminish Fatah's influence which was seen as the greater threat. Hamas is the textbook case of "blowback" - see CIA and Al-Qaeda.
Hamas desperately seeks a "founding myth" for its organisation due to its history and that is sufficient to provide justification for risk associated with open warfare. Al-Aqsa flood provides that founding myth.
Hamas' attack is the greatest failure of Israeli security as in no previous war has territory of Israel been under control of enemy forces.
4. BRUTALITY
Since 1967 it can be objectively stated that Israel is a brutal occupying force that engages in systematic and deliberate ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Motivations or temporary adjustment of attitude are irrelevant. This is the general unchanging trend and it increasingly finds support among the population which demographically evolves from Labour Zionism through Revisionist Zionism to Religious Zionism/Jewish Supremacism.
The brutality of IDF occupation forces is not significantly different from the actions of Hamas but it is framed differently by Israeli and American propaganda. For example the practice of desacrating bodies of the dead is used by both sides, although they choose different methods for optics e.g. they refuse to return bodies to families as "punishment".
Israel deliberately uses cultural and psychological methods of oppression against Palestinian population as a whole on a much larger scale because of constraints on physical violence imposed by external actors. That malice is largely unknown in the west due to limited insights and propaganda.
5. CIVILIANS
Hamas officially does not condone attacks on civilians. However an important detail is overlooked in Israeli propaganda in the west.
All settlers are provided by weapons by Israeli government and since settlements on territory captured after 1967 are illegal all settlers are considered by Hamas to be militants.
Similarly all settlers on territory captured in 1948 and annexed into Israel in contravention of UN charter are treated in the same manner and Israeli population in those territories are treated as militants as they inhabit illegal territory and are provided with weapons by Israeli government.
Hamas identifies "occupied" by expelled population, not legal borders. Any home belonging to expelled Palestinian is "occupied".
Additionally Hamas considers the universal conscription affecting both men and women to be a nullifying element. The defense doctrine of Israel is one of total defense.
As far as Hamas is concerned in Israel there are no "civilians" in the western understanding of the term. Israel deliberately distorts that fact and presents armed settlers and reservists as equivalent to civilians who never served in the military and are unarmed.
6. MOTIVATION
The motivation for the attacks is religious and cultural. The militants fighting in jihad are treated as heroes among the radical Muslim population. Jihadists have fundamentally different motivation for fighting than secular Israelis and western rationale can't be applied to it.
Heroic death is a motivating factor for religious and impoverished populations and Hamas provides material support for families.
The only religiously motivated Israelis are exempt from military service.
Hamas has objective interest in promoting the "martyrs" while Israel has interest in limiting information of casualties.
Military censorship in Israel affects all aspects of Israeli society and media and is constantly fought by civic organisations. In terms of security policies Israel is much closer to a military regime than a western democracy.
7. PROPAGANDA
Hamas propagandised its actions widely to incite an uprising in all Palestinian territories.
The gruesome nature of the content is deliberate and aimed at population that suffers similar brutality and depredations from occupying forces and settlers. It is meant to provide a sense of empowerment and trigger anger and violent reactions by showing Israel as weak.
Hamas failed to gain broad response and Fatah may be responsible for that failure but that may change as IDF enters Gaza.
Responses from other Muslim countries were largely muted but that may also change over time as more and more propaganda materials reach circulation and IDF enters Gaza.
Israel deliberately attempts to limit the spread of Hamas' narrative as mass unrest in Palestine and other Muslim countries is its greatest fear. However the focus of Israelis is on changing the narrative to deny "heroism" which is the motivating factor.
Israel understands that they have no ability to influence the perception in Muslim countries so it bombards western countries with propaganda, troll networks in social media to balance it.
Russia and Ukraine have also involved themselves in it but they are largely external factors that are trying to capitalise and react respectively.
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Hopefully this helps.
Also:
Whichever moderator read my analysis of Judaism as an ideology and saw "broad racial stereotypes". You are the racist to make that association.
He is a specialist in international relations with a focus on jihadism and Middle East. Unfortunately his commentary is available only in Polish because he is not a media person. He worked in government institutions including as an advisor to the PM of Poland, and was associated with Polish social democrats (SdPL/SLD). He also knows Arabic so he can draw on local sources.
You can translate the webpage to see his credentials:
I always pay attention to what he has to say, because he always brings an interesting perspective, especially since 2015 the media narratives in Poland have gradually shifted to replicate American and British propaganda. Even if I disagree on something I found him to be always helpful and constructive.
--------
1. CONFLICT
There are two dimensions of the conflict involving Israel:
- religious - between Islamic world and Judaism supported by Evangelical Christianity with the Al-Aqsa mosque being the primary element
- secular - between Israel and Palestine focused on statehood and nationhood of Palestinians
The business model is selling jihad which is best understood as a contemporary analogue to medieval crusades, not the initial Arab conquests. It is a recapture of Muslim holy land taken over by infidels.
2. ISRAEL
Israel's primary interest is secular and its core institutions - both government and military/security are secular in nature. The religious aspect of Zionism has only recently emerged as a leading force due to the fallout of the political and demographic evolution of the country over many decades. It will only become more prominent over time as birth rates are falling except in the religious demographics.
Religious interest is full displacement of non-Jewish population and transforming of Israel into a monoreligious regime. The recent scandal with Haredi spitting on Christians is an example of the mentality.
A major problem is the recent judical reform which put Israel's Supreme Court under the control of Knesset giving the minister control over personnel which until recently were protected from political intervention by the Supreme Court. This means that "secular" personnel in military/intel can be replaced by "religious" personnel. Revisionist Zionism (Likud) is "secular". Religious Zionism (Shas etc) and Jewish Supremacism (Otzma Yehudit etc) are "religious". This is new left-right paradigm which replaced the former based on Labour vs Revisionist Zionism.
Minister of Justice responsible for the reform - Itama Ben-Gvir (Otzma Yehudit) - is widely hated and will be used as a scapegoat by Netanyahu (Likud) who has a personal stake in avoiding prosecution.
3. HAMAS
Hamas is a Islamic jihadist organisation first, and Palestinian nationalist organisation second.
The codename of Hamas' operation is "Al-Aqsa flood" thus framing it primarily in jihadist terms.
Hamas has been created by Mossad to undermine secular Fatah/PLO and that stigma still persists in the broader Muslim/Arab community even though Hamas has been independent since late 1980s/First Intifada. Nevertheless until the Second Intifada there was an unspoken cooperation between Israeli intelligence and Hamas as both sought to diminish Fatah's influence which was seen as the greater threat. Hamas is the textbook case of "blowback" - see CIA and Al-Qaeda.
Hamas desperately seeks a "founding myth" for its organisation due to its history and that is sufficient to provide justification for risk associated with open warfare. Al-Aqsa flood provides that founding myth.
Hamas' attack is the greatest failure of Israeli security as in no previous war has territory of Israel been under control of enemy forces.
4. BRUTALITY
Since 1967 it can be objectively stated that Israel is a brutal occupying force that engages in systematic and deliberate ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Motivations or temporary adjustment of attitude are irrelevant. This is the general unchanging trend and it increasingly finds support among the population which demographically evolves from Labour Zionism through Revisionist Zionism to Religious Zionism/Jewish Supremacism.
The brutality of IDF occupation forces is not significantly different from the actions of Hamas but it is framed differently by Israeli and American propaganda. For example the practice of desacrating bodies of the dead is used by both sides, although they choose different methods for optics e.g. they refuse to return bodies to families as "punishment".
Israel deliberately uses cultural and psychological methods of oppression against Palestinian population as a whole on a much larger scale because of constraints on physical violence imposed by external actors. That malice is largely unknown in the west due to limited insights and propaganda.
5. CIVILIANS
Hamas officially does not condone attacks on civilians. However an important detail is overlooked in Israeli propaganda in the west.
All settlers are provided by weapons by Israeli government and since settlements on territory captured after 1967 are illegal all settlers are considered by Hamas to be militants.
Similarly all settlers on territory captured in 1948 and annexed into Israel in contravention of UN charter are treated in the same manner and Israeli population in those territories are treated as militants as they inhabit illegal territory and are provided with weapons by Israeli government.
Hamas identifies "occupied" by expelled population, not legal borders. Any home belonging to expelled Palestinian is "occupied".
Additionally Hamas considers the universal conscription affecting both men and women to be a nullifying element. The defense doctrine of Israel is one of total defense.
As far as Hamas is concerned in Israel there are no "civilians" in the western understanding of the term. Israel deliberately distorts that fact and presents armed settlers and reservists as equivalent to civilians who never served in the military and are unarmed.
6. MOTIVATION
The motivation for the attacks is religious and cultural. The militants fighting in jihad are treated as heroes among the radical Muslim population. Jihadists have fundamentally different motivation for fighting than secular Israelis and western rationale can't be applied to it.
Heroic death is a motivating factor for religious and impoverished populations and Hamas provides material support for families.
The only religiously motivated Israelis are exempt from military service.
Hamas has objective interest in promoting the "martyrs" while Israel has interest in limiting information of casualties.
Military censorship in Israel affects all aspects of Israeli society and media and is constantly fought by civic organisations. In terms of security policies Israel is much closer to a military regime than a western democracy.
7. PROPAGANDA
Hamas propagandised its actions widely to incite an uprising in all Palestinian territories.
The gruesome nature of the content is deliberate and aimed at population that suffers similar brutality and depredations from occupying forces and settlers. It is meant to provide a sense of empowerment and trigger anger and violent reactions by showing Israel as weak.
Hamas failed to gain broad response and Fatah may be responsible for that failure but that may change as IDF enters Gaza.
Responses from other Muslim countries were largely muted but that may also change over time as more and more propaganda materials reach circulation and IDF enters Gaza.
Israel deliberately attempts to limit the spread of Hamas' narrative as mass unrest in Palestine and other Muslim countries is its greatest fear. However the focus of Israelis is on changing the narrative to deny "heroism" which is the motivating factor.
Israel understands that they have no ability to influence the perception in Muslim countries so it bombards western countries with propaganda, troll networks in social media to balance it.
Russia and Ukraine have also involved themselves in it but they are largely external factors that are trying to capitalise and react respectively.
--------
Hopefully this helps.
Also:
Whichever moderator read my analysis of Judaism as an ideology and saw "broad racial stereotypes". You are the racist to make that association.
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High nominal GDP per capita means nothing if the price of basic living is also high. PPP is more reflective of reality.I would like to add more to it. Have anyone seen their nominal GDP per capita? It close to 60000!! Higher than UAE!!!
Now there are places i haven't been before, seen of pictures only & i wished i had been there.
A supposed country with 60000 per capita income will have flying cars running around. I've been to countries like Malaysia,Brunei, UAE. UAE's population is comparable
I may be wrong but I, for a single second don't believe they have 60000 per capita economy
View attachment 119809
Poor boys seem like they have been awaken in middle of sleep
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Quite spot on. Like I've alluded indirectly in my posts thus far you cannot seperate religion or least the politico/socioreligious aspect from the narrative of this event and the broader conflict.
To do so would totally dilute the entire conversation and brings disservice to those who are wanting to know more about this sh1tstorm.
Whether we like it or not, Islam, Judaism and Christianity are totally intertwined here.
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