Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
GPS guided bombs weren't deployed until 1999. Desert Storm was still laser and TV guided munitions, and they did have problems.
Interesting, I may have misinterpreted some source material when they mentioned GPS increasing firing accuracy in desert storm but the main purpose was navigation and maneuver.

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HighGround

Senior Member
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MarKoz81

Junior Member
Registered Member
Fake news.


I appreciate your posts, but you sometimes get carried away by media reports. You have to understand that Israeli hardliners are using this moment to push their anti-Iran propaganda through friendly outlets like WSJ.

Let me help here.

All anti-Iranian rhetoric from Israel is for show. Israel is not a country but an intellignce-run business venture fueled by capital from the US. This is why the country is so unhinged - that's their business model.

"State of Israel" ended when Labour Zionists lost power in 1977 to Revisionists under Menachem Begin. While a state of Israel continues you may as well consider the fallout of Yom Kippur war to be dismantling of the original project. Ship of Theseus type of thing.

The main reason for that was de facto insolvency of Israel which couldn't continue without US support. I can't find sources in English so just use this for reference:

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The US agreed to support Israel but with that came gradual shift of influence in Israel from the left (Labour Zionism/democratic socialism) to the right (Revisionist Zionism/neoliberalism) which now is permanent as the country doesn't really have a significant "left" party. All major parties are variations of Revisionist Zionism with support for neoliberal policies as their sponsors from the US require. And because of that there is a preference for reliable parters which leads to politicians with careers in the military and intelligence, rather than from regular political activism like in the past.

Netanyahu is not PM of israel but the CEO of Israel Inc. He sells threat scenarios which are the used by US Republicans for gathering funds and provide with political talking points. And that is the real reason why he has been the PM of Israel from 1996 to 1999, from 2009 to 2021 and currently. As long as that is done the money flows. And you can see how much of it by the table in my previous post.

Furthermore Netanyahu understands very well that currently there is no scenario of US-led military intervention in Iran that doesn't end badly for Israel. This is why IDF tried unsuccessfully to uproot Hezbollah from Lebanon in 2006. As long as Hezbollah is in Lebanon Israel can't go to war with Iran. The only other alternative is to put Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states in the same coalition as Israel for balance and that just failed.

This is why there was no intervention even with Jewish asset Donald Trump in power and Republicans controlling all levers of power from January 2017 to December 2018. The only significant thing which they did was assassination of Soleimani in January 2020 and that was conducted with full backing of the hard power apparatus in the US government.

Militarily the last moment to strike at Iran was in the 2000s and that was one of the primary reasons for invasion of Iraq (the other was moving troops out of Saudi Arabia): staging ground for direct power projection into Iran proper. But it didn't work and "bomb bomb bomb Iran" from McCain didn't work either. And now it's too late because there are simply too many missiles in place and while US will be breaking its teeth in Iran, Israel will be rubble.

Both Biden administration and Israel will do everything to limit escalation vs Iran.

Which they won't by the way but not because Iran wasn't involved but the involvement did not extend beyond what is technically legal. Iran provided intelligence, technical instruction, planned coordination with their own proxies etc. None of this is any more problematic than Hezbollah launching attacks on Israeli territory from Lebanon.

All of this was very valuable because you can't transfer knowledge from a professional army or elite unit to a mobilized formation - it's like talking in a different language. Hezbollah personnel can provide a wealth of information on precisely that. They are literally the best at doing that due to their experience in Syria. My bet would be that Hamas has been planning this for much longer than this August because two months is not enough.

That involvement had to happen because Iran is the only actor capable of indirect power projection into Israel. If IDF redirected troops from the north to the south and Syrian army tried to recapture Golan Heights they would be bombed and probably also by the US which wouldn't be sufficient but could be a deterrent. But bombing Lebanon is far more problematic and time consuming considering how extensively Hezbollah is prepared for a potential war. And as long as Hezbollah is in Lebanon they are a priority target for US airstrikes which helps Syria to do their own thing and that makes it doubly problematic.

Now imagine being Hamas and planning operation first with the knowledge that both Hezbollah and SAA will put pressure and then with the knowledge that they won't because that is too escalatory. The difference is everything. And let's not forget Qatar is Shia and neutral towards Iran. That's where Hamas leadership was when the operation started.There is simply no way Iran wasn't involved but none of it is casus belli.

WSJ is not trying to start a war with Iran. They're just doing their partisan duty of putting pressure on Biden. WSJ always leaned Republican and since it was bought out by Murdoch it is a Republican mouthpiece, just with a more sophisticated audience.

That's all.

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Oct 9 (Reuters) - A senior Hamas official said the group is open to discussions over a possible truce with Israel, having "achieved its targets."

Moussa Abu Marzouk told Al Jazeera in a phone interview that Hamas was open to "something of that sort" and "all political dialogues" when asked whether the Islamist group is willing to discuss a possible ceasefire.

This really sounds like trolling. Or something of that sort.
 
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TK3600

Major
Registered Member
official statement from MBS ..


BREAKING: CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN SUPPORTS PALESTINE "The Kingdom’s continuous stand by the Palestinian people to achieve their legitimate rights to a decent life, realize their hopes and aspirations, and achieve just and lasting peace."
That link is not officially linked to the government though.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
You have to understand that Israeli hardliners are using this moment to push their anti-Iran propaganda through friendly outlets like WSJ.
That may be so, but it's crystal clear at this point that a decision has been made to not escalate with Iran no matter what the facts are. Take a look at this interview with the Israeli ambassador to the US when he's asked about Iran and its involvement:
What's the first thing out of his mouth? "I want to be precise in my words." He's been told.
 

FriedButter

Major
Registered Member
That link is not officially linked to the government though.

Find it hard to believe the crown prince doesn’t have influence in their own kingdom.

Saudi Arabia ‘continues to stand by’ Palestinians: MBS​

Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, also known as MBS, has spoken on the phone with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

During the call, MBS said Saudi Arabia “is making every possible effort to engage with all international and regional parties to halt the ongoing escalation,” according to a statement issued by his office.

It added that the kingdom “continues to stand by the Palestinian people in their pursuit of their legitimate rights, striving for a dignified life, realising their hopes and aspirations, and achieving a just and lasting peace”.
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