Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

_killuminati_ · Aug 26, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
No they actually said they will attack ships belonging to UK/US and those supplying Israel. Many of these ships attacked so far belong to other nations and were not supplying the war effort.

Do you really think a bankrupt country like Greece or $800 GDP/capita Liberia "owns" these ships? Obviously, you aren't aware of why ship owners "carry" foreign flags, especially of places like Liberia, Greece and Cyprus.

Petrolicious88 said:
Even if they can enforce a total blockade of Red Sea, how much damage would that do to Israel?? Most of their ports are on the Mediterranean with around 5% of the trades relying on the Red Sea port.

Israeli ports on Mediterranean still rely on shipment moving via Suez and Red Sea. Japan, Singapore, India, maybe also China, as well as the growing trade with UAE which is nearly stifled in total.

Petrolicious88 said:
Yes, thats Iran's nuclear option and will cause major causalities to Israel. But again, Iran would suffer much more. It cannot hope to win a conventional war with US/Israel and survive. What is US/Israel's nuclear option.

Afghanistan was in much worse condition than today's Iran when all of NATO with it's might invaded. Not only did Afghanistan survive but they sent US and it's vassals packing. Why do you ignore history and hinge on lunacy in every post? There should be a modicum of truth in discussions, an element totally devoid in your posts.

JJD1803 · Aug 26, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
Have heard this story before. Six - Day war, Yom Kippur war, First and Second Lebanon War. Each time the economy suffered, people left. Each time people came back, Israel recovered and thrived. Again, the worst that can happen to Israel is Two - State solution. And we are a long way from that, if ever.

Settlements have actually expanded this time. Israel has taken more land, and will prob take more land after this is over. Palestinian infrastructure totally destroyed. Polio is on the rise. Famine affecting almost entire population. Ground water that took decades to collect destroyed. Sure Israel is suffering. But there is no comparison the extent of damage between it and Palestine.

No they actually said they will attack ships belonging to UK/US and those supplying Israel. Many of these ships attacked so far belong to other nations and were not supplying the war effort. Even if they can enforce a total blockade of Red Sea, how much damage would that do to Israel?? Most of their ports are on the Mediterranean with around 5% of the trades relying on the Red Sea port. So is Israel suffering because of the Houthis or the ongoing war effort in Gaza/Lebanon?

That greek ship that was just set ablaze was carrying 150,000 tones of crude. Was it even carrying oil to Israel?

If it leaks, the Houthis would have caused one of the biggest environmental disasters in their own backyard affecting themselves and their Arab neighbors. I guess the Houthis also expect others to clean it up for them.

Yes, thats Iran's nuclear option and will cause major causalities to Israel. But again, Iran would suffer much more. It cannot hope to win a conventional war with US/Israel and survive. What is US/Israel's nuclear option.

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Read this article from ex Israeli general Yitzhak Brik. He breaks down why Israel is in a path to peril. He accurately predicted that something like Al Aqsa Flood would happen. He has come out and said that another year of this war of attrition in Gaza and Northern Israel will lead to the collapse of the entity. He cites dissolution and polarization of Israeli society, economic losses, and Israel’s slow unwinding toward pariah state status. He further states that Hamas’ new leader Sinwar understands the situation and is deliberately dragging it out to further bleed Israel as a nation; in short: “the war of attrition is working in his favor.” He also writes that:

“I assume that Defense Minister Gallant already understands that the war
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. Israel is sinking deeper into the Gazan mud, losing more and more soldiers as they get killed or wounded, without any chance of achieving the war's main goal: bringing down Hamas.

The country really is galloping towards the edge of an abyss. If the war of attrition against Hamas and Hezbollah continues, Israel will collapse within no more than a year.

Terror attacks are intensifying in the West Bank and inside the country, the reservist army is voting with its feet following
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, and the economy is crashing. Israel has also become a pariah state, prompting economic boycotts and an embargo on arms shipments.

Also the Shin Bet has come out and said the Israeli right wing is the biggest threat to Israel because :

Israel's Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar said in a letter to Netanyahu, Gallant and other ministers published by Channel 12 that "Jewish terror" by settlers in the West Bank and Ben Gvir's incursions into Al-Aqsa Mosque are doing "indescribable damage to Israel."
In response to his warnings about settler terror in the West Bank, Ben Gvir reportedly demanded Ronen Bar's dismissal, and withdrew from the ministers' meeting, according to the Israeli army's radio station.

They go on to say:

If Israel continues to deny the bitter truth that a Jewish wild weed that has grown in the territories is now out of control, Jewish terror will bring Israel down. "The 'hilltop youth' phenomenon has long grown into a platform for committing violence against Palestinians," wrote Bar.

Basically many in the Israeli elites in the military and intelligence have been raising the alarm that Israel is down a dangerous path and near its end. Because of the actions of the right wing government. Even they are frightened.

Petrolicious88 · Aug 26, 2024

_killuminati_ said:
Do you really think a bankrupt country like Greece or $800 GDP/capita Liberia "owns" these ships? Obviously, you aren't aware of why ship owners "carry" foreign flags, especially of places like Liberia, Greece and Cyprus.

What are you talking about??? Greek ship owners control more than one-fifth of the world’s entire fleet or 21% of the global fleet in deadweight ton (dwt) terms.

The ship that was just attacked was Greek Flagged and owned by Delta Tankers (Greek company). It either did not request or was denied escort (delta tankers have been known to operate "ghost fleets" that smuggle Russian or Iranian oil in the past). It turned off its AIS. So was it even heading to and from Israel or just the Houthis picking off what they can find.

Even if the ship was somehow proven to be carrying oil to Israel, how stupid would you be to blow up an oil tanker knowing the obvious environmental risks.

_killuminati_ said:
Israeli ports on Mediterranean still rely on shipment moving via Suez and Red Sea. Japan, Singapore, India, maybe also China, as well as the growing trade with UAE which is nearly stifled in total.

The Port of Eilat is strategic, but small in terms of trade volume. Most of Israel's goods go through the port of Haifa and Ashdod on the Mediterranean (30 and 25 millions tones/year respectively). Eliat was struggling even before Oct. 7th. It was sold/privitazed hoping it would boost traffic. It's still not connected to the core of Israel by rail networks.

_killuminati_ said:
Afghanistan was in much worse condition than today's Iran when all of NATO with it's might invaded. Not only did Afghanistan survive but they sent US and it's vassals packing. Why do you ignore history and hinge on lunacy in every post? There should be a modicum of truth in discussions, an element totally devoid in your posts.

Oh my lord, you are comparing Afghanistan with Iran. Iran has densely populated cities, oil infrastructure, military industrial complex, an actual economy. This is the kind of war the Pentagon is very good at.

Afghanistan was a bunch of Taliban guerrillas fighting in the mountains.

FairAndUnbiased · Aug 26, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
Oh my lord, you are comparing Afghanistan with Iran. Iran has densely populated cities, oil infrastructure, military industrial complex, an actual economy. This is the kind of war the Pentagon is very good at.

Afghanistan was a bunch of Taliban guerrillas fighting in the mountains.

They were supposedly good at the air war too yet what happened in Vietnam?

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In total, the United States military lost in Vietnam almost 10,000 aircraft, helicopters and UAVs (3,744 planes,
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5,607 helicopters
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and about 1,000 UAVs).

Index · Aug 27, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
Oh my lord, you are comparing Afghanistan with Iran. Iran has densely populated cities, oil infrastructure, military industrial complex, an actual economy. This is the kind of war the Pentagon is very good at.

Why exactly do you think the Pentagon is very good at this type of war? They haven't ever proved it.

If you can't even take down someone with 0 defenses and poor cohesion, how will you take on an actual military force? US military is well aware of this fact, hence why they are not going to direct war with Iran, despite Iran killing US personnel directly from time to time.

US can likely beat Iran, regionally at least. They could exile Iran's influence back to Iranian borders and damage large amounts of the Iranian economy/infrastructure. But the effort and time required will be the same level as what Russia is putting in Ukraine. In the end, America is dictated by the need to achieve their goals realistically, if they don't have the hard power to clearly beat Iran, they will not go for it unless forcibly provoked into it, and then it will be a huge national mistake.

sheogorath · Aug 27, 2024

FairAndUnbiased said:
They were supposedly good at the air war too yet what happened in Vietnam?

Also funny how they fail to address the fact that Iran does have air defences, it is 3 times the size of Afghanistan and a lot of bases and instalations are outside the range of most of the tactical fleet without exposing tankers right above Iranian air space.

You'd think by now, after several blunders and assumptions being blown out of the water by the Ukraine war and Yemen, people would cut it with the "Now you'll find out why we don't have healthcare" schtick.

Also zero consideration of how much resources the US willing to spend on Iran without hampering its own fighting capabilities in the Pacific, which is still primary over the zionists's needs to genocide the Iranians too.

Petrolicious88 · Aug 27, 2024

Index said:
Why exactly do you think the Pentagon is very good at this type of war? They haven't ever proved it.

If you can't even take down someone with 0 defenses and poor cohesion, how will you take on an actual military force? US military is well aware of this fact, hence why they are not going to direct war with Iran, despite Iran killing US personnel directly from time to time.

US can likely beat Iran, regionally at least. They could exile Iran's influence back to Iranian borders and damage large amounts of the Iranian economy/infrastructure. But the effort and time required will be the same level as what Russia is putting in Ukraine. In the end, America is dictated by the need to achieve their goals realistically, if they don't have the hard power to clearly beat Iran, they will not go for it unless forcibly provoked into it, and then it will be a huge national mistake.

Isn't it obvious. In Afghanistan, the Taliban was hard to defeat because it has no center, no military infrastructure. Spread out in the remote mountains, blending in with the population.

Iran is the opposite of that. Plus, can they sustain a war once their oil infrastructure destroyed? How much of their economy depends on oil exports?

iBBz · Aug 27, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
What are you talking about??? Greek ship owners control more than one-fifth of the world’s entire fleet or 21% of the global fleet in deadweight ton (dwt) terms.

The ship that was just attacked was Greek Flagged and owned by Delta Tankers (Greek company). It either did not request or was denied escort (delta tankers have been known to operate "ghost fleets" that smuggle Russian or Iranian oil in the past). It turned off its AIS. So was it even heading to and from Israel or just the Houthis picking off what they can find.

Even if the ship was somehow proven to be carrying oil to Israel, how stupid would you be to blow up an oil tanker knowing the obvious environmental risks.

Doesn't matter who owns it. What matters is if what its doing is considered hostile to Yemeni military goals or not. You ostensibly keep dwelling on the environmental factors. War of any scale obliterates the environment. The environment is not a factor in achieving military goals. They do not care about the fish. They are combatants, not environmental scientists.

Petrolicious88 said:
The Port of Eilat is strategic, but small in terms of trade volume. Most of Israel's goods go through the port of Haifa and Ashdod on the Mediterranean (30 and 25 millions tones/year respectively). Eliat was struggling even before Oct. 7th. It was sold/privitazed hoping it would boost traffic. It's still not connected to the core of Israel by rail networks.

Again, you have mentioned this many times before. It does not matter how small the port it. The Yemenis considered it a threat and considered hampering trade through it, an achievable objective. They were right. The port is now dead.

Petrolicious88 said:
Oh my lord, you are comparing Afghanistan with Iran. Iran has densely populated cities, oil infrastructure, military industrial complex, an actual economy. This is the kind of war the Pentagon is very good at.

Afghanistan was a bunch of Taliban guerrillas fighting in the mountains.

So you are saying that the US can beat stronger enemies with sophisticated societies, but not weaker and disorganized lightly armed ones. This is trolling and time wasting. Stop going in cycles.

FairAndUnbiased · Aug 27, 2024

Petrolicious88 said:
Isn't it obvious. In Afghanistan, the Taliban was hard to defeat because it has no center, no military infrastructure. Spread out in the remote mountains, blending in with the population.

Iran is the opposite of that. Plus, can they sustain a war once their oil infrastructure destroyed? How much of their economy depends on oil exports?

North Vietnam had a center: Hanoi.

North Vietnam had military infrastructure: it wasn't thoughts and prayers that removed 10k planes from the air and had tanks crashing through the gates of enemy headquarters.

Where's South Vietnam now?

Where's US Forces Vietnam now?

Overbom · Aug 27, 2024

IMO US ofc can win a military campaign against Iran. but the problem is that the global military layout of the US would be overwhelmed if they also have to deter China and Russia. So, no bueno for the American Empire

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

_killuminati_

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JJD1803

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Petrolicious88

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FairAndUnbiased

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Index

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sheogorath

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Petrolicious88

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iBBz

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FairAndUnbiased

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Overbom

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