Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
Off topic. But if Ukrainian IADS was any indication, it was still a respectable one despite Russians having superior air force. A fight between India and China would be the same, both air forces will have very limited role until the said air defense system is eliminated. By extension, Iran vs Israel.
I don't know when people will stop drawing conclusions from Russia/Ukraine about how a war prosecuted by an actual capable, first rate military like the PLA would play out.

Russia being laughably, embarrassingly incapable of dealing with Ukrainian AD even after years really doesn't have much relevance to other countries.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Off topic. But if Ukrainian IADS was any indication, it was still a respectable one despite Russians having superior air force. A fight between India and China would be the same, both air forces will have very limited role until the said air defense system is eliminated. By extension, Iran vs Israel.

Russia does not have stealth UAVs (in service) or MALE/HALE UAVs in sufficient numbers to perform S/DEAD with saturation and agreeable attrition. It also does not have stealth aircraft (in active combat service beyond a handful like Su-57) to better facilitate S/DEAD.

China has J-20 and GJ-11 and thousands of MALE UAVs plus better much wider coverage of ISR and cooperative engagement for ground forces to play a part in destroying AD at ranges >200km. Any single element can be a crucial difference in outcome. Ukraine has been boosted by NATO AD.

Russia hasn't been able to make use of its antiquated bomber fleet in performing this role without being risked. China doesn't seem to have anywhere near as much experience as the US in S/DEAD but does have a bit more kit to use in the air and on the ground compared to Russia. Not to mention ~5x Russia's numbers and ~10x its production capability and economic resources.

Indian AD to Chinese S/DEAD =/= Ukrainian AD (NATO supplemented) to Russian S/DEAD.

First of all Indian AD << Ukrainian AD (NATO supplemented) which was already better than Indian AD in most ways including numerically to Indian AD without even NATO assistance. Chinese S/DEAD is many times and multidimensionally superior to Russian S/DEAD which appears to be extremely limited atm... to the point of using FPVs as a main capability. smh.
 
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Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
Russia does not have stealth UAVs or UAVs in sufficient numbers to perform S/DEAD. It also does not have stealth aircraft to better facilitate S/DEAD.

China has J-20 and GJ-11 and thousands of MALE UAVs plus better much wider coverage of ISR and cooperative engagement for ground forces to play a part in destroying AD at ranges >200km. Any single element can be a crucial difference in outcome. Ukraine has been boosted by NATO AD.

Russia hasn't been able to make use of its antiquated bomber fleet in performing this role without being risked. China doesn't seem to have anywhere near as much experience as the US in S/DEAD but does have a bit more kit to use in the air and on the ground compared to Russia. Not to mention ~5x Russia's numbers and ~10x its production capability and economic resources.
Kinda OT but US also has no SEAD experience against modern or even late cold war era level enemies. Although they soon may have through Ukraine.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Kinda OT but US also has no SEAD experience against modern or even late cold war era level enemies. Although they soon may have through Ukraine.

True. But China doesn't even have S/DEAD experience against lower tier adversaries. Experience does count quite a bit. Lots of training and exercises may not reflect reality in any way. Only after doing and refining can we talk about this. US at least has done some leg work and with Russia's war, has more insight now.

Indian AD though is a joke. Even in their show off exercises where they bring in politicians, they missed around 1/3 of near stationary targets. At least China has a dozen types of dedicated live target platforms for training. S-400 being their best AD system is a serious challenge to all S/DEAD. Unless of course you can spare hundreds of UAVs and drones to knock each one out within a day. I mean China has 100x more UAVs than India has 40N6 missiles. Wouldn't even need a single manned fighter to fly in as the troops march. India's ground forces would be China's main challenge if anything due to sheer size and mass.
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Were F-22s deployed last time in April? Or is this a reaction to the Russian air defense assets being deployed in Iran.
This is actually pretty funny. The F-22 is being prematurely retired (after planned acquisitions cut exponentially) with the official excuse that the aircraft was an overkill with no rival to match it.

In reality, it's being phased out due to some inherent flaws interpolated from the fact that it experienced practically no combat at all, failed to replace it's intended aircraft (F-16 and F-15 which continue to be ordered by USAF today), and reports of it's detection by Venezuela. And now they say they are deploying the F-22 against Iran, whose airforce is practically nonexistent!
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
when was Venezuela able to detect F-22 flying without LL to enhance RCS? Sounds like silliness similar to how the Indian Air Chief or whatever declared that Indian radars could detect J-20 in Tibet before J-20s were even deployed to a single squadron positioned in Tibet.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why was my response to @MortyandRick deleted. Anyway no big deal. I'll simply say that

It's selective bias to quote western media when it suits the narratives, and then call them propaganda when it doesn't.
no it isn't. what kind of stupid logic is this? you assume that lies are uniformly distributed and bias is in a random direction. But that would be stupid.

It is much more logic to assume that lies are told to benefit oneself, as long as the risk of being caught is low, and when failure is admitted, it is only admitted because it would be impossible to hide otherwise, or because admitting a small failure can cover a bigger failure.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
Why? because he's become a Trumpert? and that he's been singing the tune of Russia will winning, is winning vs. NATO/Ukraine conflict? Col.Macgregor has been one of U.S. Army's famous or infamous iconoclast especially when he wrote his book "BREAKING THE PHALANX" criticizing mother Army for not just it's behemoth size but the inability to be adaptable/flexible in that then word's changed landscape. His career pretty much became a dead end in terms of him becoming a field grade officer even after getting some assistance from U.S. Army's armor mafia in then Gen. Wesley Clark in his position as NATO SACEUR. He plucked MacGregor to be his strategist and helped plan the OPERATION ALLIED FORCE against Serbia in 1999 Kosovo War. The man had a stellar combat record in the 1st Gulf War during the battle of 73 easting where a certain fellow named H.R. MacMaster gained fame as well. While the former only managed to reach the rank of Colonel, the latter achieved a 3 star status, and then became then Trump's National Security Advisor, who's now a resident fellow/scholar of the Hudson Institute that pretty much call, advocate for conflict with China all-day, everyday, 24/7.

Unless you can provide a more solid evidence and argument to support your not thinly veiled criticism and dismissal of Doug then you ought to be more circumspect with your comments about the man.
Are you serious about what you are saying?

This is the same guy who was saying on TV in February 2022 that the battle in eastern Ukraine was almost over and that if Ukrainian forces did not surrender in the next 24 hours, they would be annihilated.
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This is the same guy who reacting to the Kharkiv withdrawal was saying that the Russian army was back in the war and in the process of crushing the remaining Ukrainian resistance in southern Ukraine,
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. Less than a month before Russia retreated from the right bank of Kherson lol. Even the head of the command of Russian forces in Ukraine - Surovikin - at the time hinted at an inevitable withdrawal from the region. It takes a special kind of naivety to believe anything you say.

Regarding Gaza and Israel, he also said that Turkish troops -
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- would eventually be in Gaza fighting against Israel.

There are a mountain of failed and idiotic predictions from him that I won't list them all.

Douglas Macgregor is the Ben Hodges version of the pro-Russians. In fact, all this ends up demonstrating the failure of the US command school for officers that has been degraded since before the Gulf War. The result and the evidence is this: they created a bunch of uninformed and idiotic senior officers and generals.
 
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