Is War Coming to Iran?

stardave

Junior Member
We had a very honest journalist briefing us on his profession, who plainly told us people want to be entertained, not lectured, by us and what the necessary qualifications are. It turned out I should better become a scientist and leave telling people the truth to humorous entertainment.
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You hit the nail on the head, I always laugh when people says China don't have a free media, but guess what? We don't either, otherwise how can you explain that almost every single american was totally convinced there was MWD at start of the war, where was the "free media's" critical analysis and research on those "yellow cake uranium" or the "drones loaded with bio-chemical weapons". Fact is all major media serves as mouth piece of the government, some are more than the others, but all of them have essentially the same purpose.

Oh and another thing, you rarely get's "news" these days, the media follow each other like sheep, you either get no reporting or over coverage, it is not about finding out the truth, inform and educate the public, it is all about rating and traffic, that means pending to the lowest common denominator, aka people's pre-existing emotion and prejudices.
 

stardave

Junior Member
Hmmm? They can? You mean, in theory, right, and not in practice. Critical historical analysis (as opposed to projecting assumptions, wishful thinking, or placing inordinate stock in computer simulations) suggests that "state of the art" capacities often prove ineffective against state of the practice technologies (think Scud), and several of the missiles in Iran's arsenal are, indeed, state of the practice. It has not yet been demonstrated that a missile defense system is useful, in practice, against a missile barrage. Additionally, "setting-up" such traps requires advanced preparation. It could not be done after the fact. If we acknowledge that the US and Israeli analysts are more analytically vigorous than both yellow journalists and yellow academicians, we can allow that they have probably considered my proposed scenario. Also allowing the possibility that their response would be to use the tactic you suggest, would require, first, that they have considered my proposed scenario as being viable threat and, second, that the response you suggest be prepared well in advance of any first strike. Even then, I doubt that using a real-world military and economic crisis as a testing-field for a practically unproven defensive methodology would score high grades from either Sun-Tzu, Musachi, de Jomini, or Clausewitz. If I remember correctly, Israel was not well pleased with the guarantees of the Patriot defense system during the Gulf War, and with good cause.

Put simply, at this juncture, with Iran possessing a viable threat to the stability of the global energy supply, negotiations and compromises from all stakeholders are a better, and more logical, course of action than are fantasies of full spectrum dominance.

Even if they can't shoot down all the scuds, it won't make a difference, because those things are inaccurate as hell. The damage will be more psychological than real, which means the oil price will spike and US (Obama) will suffer. That is why Iran and US have a common interest to try to not start the war, Israel is the one that is being an pain in the ass right now.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Even if they can't shoot down all the scuds, it won't make a difference, because those things are inaccurate as hell. The damage will be more psychological than real, which means the oil price will spike and US (Obama) will suffer. That is why Iran and US have a common interest to try to not start the war, Israel is the one that is being an pain in the ass right now.

I agree, my bad not to highlight the whole issue of point defense. These installations aren't as big as a town and significant destruction must hit certain locations, making it a point defense problem that is much easier to solve than protecting an area like Tel Aviv. The defensive missiles have a long reach compared to guns for the same purpose and are part of a system to disable missiles that are on a dangerous trajectory despite having been attacked to go off target by other means or by guidance system inaccuracy. Missile defense is a kind of filtering with probability(jamming, flares, false targets) and numbers per time filters(missiles, guns). I'm not sure under what category new ideas like destroying the electronics will fall, probably an in-between category. As long as people wait for a conflict, they can prepare the layers of filters of their onions.

@stardave:
Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the Soviet Union the same as there is the USA?"
Radio Yerevan answered: "In principle, yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the Washington Monument in Washington, DC, and yell, ´Down with Reagan!´, and you will not be punished. In the Soviet Union, you can stand in the Red Square in Moscow and yell, ´Down with Reagan!´, and you will not be punished."
I think there's a slight difference between the media. You can try to tell the truth in some parts of the world and visit your family afterwards, in other parts of the world your family can visit you. In every part of the world you need food that can be bought for the money someone gives you for your work. The yellow page journalists are the highest paid professional journalists and have a tough time condensing news into a suitable diet. Every-none yellow page journalist is either a romantic or/and incapable of creating the best stuff to feed the demand. Now tell me, is it the journalists' fault?
 
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stardave

Junior Member
I think there's a slight difference between the media. You can try to tell the truth in some parts of the world and visit your family afterwards, in other parts of the world your family can visit you. In every part of the world you need food that can be bought for the money someone gives you for your work. The yellow page journalists are the highest paid professional journalists and have a tough time condensing news into a suitable diet. Every-none yellow page journalist is either a romantic or/and incapable of creating the best stuff to feed the demand. Now tell me, is it the journalists' fault?

Nah, the media are all the same, the difference is the awareness level of the people, when people are suffering from basic necessity such as food, housing and jobs, they will have no problem seeing through the illusion of the government PR. However here in US, all the basic need of the people are basically meet, combine this with the media's ever dumping down of the people will make them never question the message of the media in the first place. So yes it is true that you can criticize the government in the West without consequences... but the problem is, people are so brainwashed by the media that very few people can understand what is the real issue, and what to criticize, and even if they do, the vest majority of their fellow citizens will have no idea what they are talking about so their voice will never be heard.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Last month, the SCO heads of state summit said; very unambiguously, that any military action against Iran would be unacceptable and not tolerated. Note "not tolerated" as opposed to "not supported".

That's pretty high stakes stuff and I do not believe anyone is foolishly gung ho enough to ignore the explicit warning, certainly not while 100,000 troops remain in a vulnerable position, effectively isolated behind unfriendly lines.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
The yellow page journalists are the highest paid professional journalists and have a tough time condensing news into a suitable diet. Every-none yellow page journalist is either a romantic or/and incapable of creating the best stuff to feed the demand. Now tell me, is it the journalists' fault?

They could if they all should take one creative writing class in college that would make a difference. :p
 

delft

Brigadier
Here is a commentary on the oil sanctions from a US trained and US based scholar with an Iranian name:
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Strait history
By Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich

George Santayana wisely said: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Oblivious to history and its lessons, the United States and its Western allies are repeating their actions from the 1950s - that of imposing an oil embargo on Iran. The US-led alliance has forgotten the past.

Iran remembers.

When under the leadership of the nationalist Dr Mossadegh, Iran opted to nationalize its oil industry, the British Royal Navy blocked Iran's oil exports to forcefully prevent if from nationalizing its oil. In retaliation to Iran's nationalistic ambitions, and to punish Iran for pursuing its national interests, the British instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil.

In the 1950s, Iran did not have the military might to retaliate against the oil embargo and the naval blockade was aimed at crushing the economy in order to bring about regime change. The subsequent events are described in a New York Times [1] article as a "lesson in the heavy cost that must be paid" when an oil-rich Third World nation "goes berserk with fanatical nationalism". Iran learnt that sovereignty and nationalism necessitate tactical/military strength and determination.

Not heeding the aftermath of the 1950s, the American-led Western allies have once again imposed an oil embargo on Iran. In retaliation, Iran has drafted a bill to stop the flow of oil through its territorial waters - the Strait of Hormuz, to countries that have imposed sanctions against it. This bill is not without merit and contrary to the previous oil embargo, it would appear that Tehran has the upper hand and the heavy cost associated with the embargo will not be borne by Iran alone.

Iran's legal standing
The 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) stipulates that vessels can exercise the right of innocent passage and coastal states should not impede their passage. Although Iran has signed the Treaty, the Treaty was not ratified and as such it has no legal standing. However, even if one overlooks the non-binding signature, under the UNCLOS framework of international law, a coastal state can block ships from entering its territorial waters if the passage of the ships harm "peace, good order or security" of said state, as the passage of such ships would no longer be deemed "innocent" [2].

Even if Iran simply chooses to merely delay the passage of tankers by exercising its right to inspect every oil-tanker that passes through the Strait of Hormuz, these inspections and subsequent delays would maintain or contribute to higher oil prices. While higher oil prices would benefit Iran and other oil-producing countries, they would further destabilize the European economy, which is already in crisis.

The military option
Although US-led Western allies are flexing their muscles by sending battle ships to the Persian Gulf, Washington's own war game exercise, the Millennium Challenge 2002 (with a price tag of $250 million), underscored its inability to defeat Iran. Oblivious to the lesson of its own making, by sending more warships to the Persian Gulf the US is inching towards a full-scale conflict. The inherent danger from a naval buildup is that unlike the Cuban Missile Crisis, the forces in the Persian Gulf are not confined to two leaders who would be able to communicate to stop a run-away situation. Nor would the consequences of such a potential conflict be limited to the region.

Given that 17 million barrels of oil a day, or 35% of the world's seaborne oil exports go through the Strait of Hormuz, incidents in the Strait would be fatal for the world economy. While only 1.1 millions barrels per day go to the US, a significant amount of this oil is destined for Europe. One must ask why the US demands that its "European allies" act contrary to their own national interest, pay a higher price for oil by boycotting Iran's exports and increase the risk of Iran blocking the passage of other oil-tankers destined for them.

Again, history has a straight answer. Contrary to conventional wisdom about oil producing-countries, it is the US that has used oil as a weapon. Some examples include the pressure Washington put on Britain in the 1920s to share its oil concessions in the Middle East with US companies. Post World War II, the US violated the terms of the 1928 Red Line Agreement freezing the British and the French out of the Agreement.

In 1956, the US made it clear to Britain and France that no oil would be sent to Western Europe unless the two countries agreed to a rapid withdrawal from Egypt. The US was not opposed to the overthrow of Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser, but President Dwight. D Eisenhower said: "Had they done it quickly, we would have accepted it"[3].

It is possible that the leaders of Western European countries are beholden to special interest groups such as pro-Israel lobbies, as the US is. Or they may believe that Iran will not call their bluff by ratifying the bill passed by the Majlis and that oil will be delivered unhindered. Perhaps both instances hold. Either way, they are committing financial suicide and may well suffer serious consequences before Iran's resolve is shaken.

Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich is a Public Diplomacy Scholar, independent researcher and blogger with a focus on US foreign policy and the role of lobby groups.

Used with permission of Jim Lobe's blog on US foreign policy.
 

stardave

Junior Member
They could if they all should take one creative writing class in college that would make a difference. :p

I think we have actually gone beyond yellow page journalism already (mostly), these days you don't need to just make up stuff and flat a lie about things. All you have to do is choose what to report. And this is all it takes, for example if you want to report about a dispute between two nations, if your government clearly favors one side, the article would take 20% to setting the stage to explain the situation, then take another 50% to voice one side of the disputed nation's point of view, than another 20% goes to the "expert" commentators that supports the nation that your nation support, and at very last take 5-10% of rest of the content at the very end of the article to gloss over the point of view of the 2nd nation in dispute. That means of course, technically no one is lying here, everyone is just reporting what is actually so call "fact", but only a fool would think this is fair and balanced journalism after all.

You don't have to retort to lie and deceive in modern media anymore (a lot still do), all you have to do is control the information flow, control what to and what not to report, control the agenda, control the people's mindset. And then.. repeat... repeat... repeat...

If you come to think about it... this is brilliant.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
@stardave: People decide what they want to buy. You have the right to choose and they make their choice. You mistake wishful thinking for mind control. Do you want to hear complains about you all day or do you want to hear that you are right and good? Bootlicking is not a crime. The difference to controlled media is that they write not necessarily about what people want to buy. Because of their lack of consumer input through voluntary payment, their product is not market oriented and in most cases not craved for. The
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is a well documented case of the early newspaper times that clearly highlights their infotainment basics and that certain people have a mindset they want to have reflected and strengthened in their news about the unknown far away world, everyday reality at home confronts them with enough doubts. Internet algorithms are today taking care of directing people to see things they like instead of things they dislike, like any opinion that disagrees with them, in order to sell the product (facebook).

Back to Iran, the European situation is not that bad, we have Russia, new Lybia and the Maghreb countries and we have our enlarged strategic oil reserves to sell with a profit. It's not time for Iran until Syria is re-ordered and required military presence in difficult to supply locations like Afghanistan reduced.
The limbo of this interesting game pays off by itself in creating insecurity for rising oil prices that help new drilling projects of the private oil companies. I would even say that BP&Co are happy by reliable continuous insecurity about a major confrontation in the most important oil supply region, because it allows safe calculations for new deep sea drilling projects that run profitable due to the high oil price. The problem of BP&Co is that most oilfields on land have been nationalized, driving them into the platform business or becoming Halliburton. And the Republicans should give Obama's administration an outstanding diplomats award for helping "drill, baby, drill" come true.
Because it's not yet Iran time, we should not judge the current status as the status of invading Iran. Most likely the invasion will take place to exploit a deep irreconcilable interior division. That's much better than the plan in Iraq and Afghanistan about spreading democracy from almost nothing. It means you can more rapidly set up the usual tribal force that takes control their way (the brutal old way that convinces the CIA to use the top notch torture experts of the Middle East). Lybia will showcase the new approach and Syria is the next test, but don't ask me who is pulling the strings. This seems the most complicated agglomeration of interests involved.
 
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