Is there any possibility of an EU-style union or arrangement between China, Japan, and South Korea in the future?

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Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
ZeEa5KPul said:
No, it doesn't. Someone like you who makes his living by sophistry and lies should know better than to stay away from easily falsifiable statements.
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Mace mentioned goods specifically, albeit maybe he meant to include services too.

You're the last person on Earth who should ask this question.
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Why? The UK has a deficit in terms of both goods and services.

Once China develops and cultivates its imperialist instincts - as I'm certain it shall - trade embargoes and sanctions might simply be insufficient to express its displeasure. Recalcitrant countries might have to be bombed; you know, like how the US does it.
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I can't recall the last time the US bombed a country to make it sign a trade deal. Although I think it's strange that you're taking the view that China forcing other countries to do what it wants rather than making a mutually-beneficial deal is what's going to happen or somehow preferable.
 
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Petrolicious88

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AssassinsMace said:
I'll tell you when they come begging to China. When the US goes down especially if it's from their own arrogance. Countries that can't live by their own means in order to maintain a modern lifestyle need to export their goods. This ain't a hundred years ago where they think they don't have to worry about their victims attacking their homelands. They're going to get nuked this time. Nukes are the great equalizer. If one is planning to seize control of the world, they're going to get nuked by someone. If you're not planning to take over the world, then you have nothing to worry about. The US wants to portray China as planning to take over the world. That's because they have to divert attention from their history of it. The number of US drone strikes alone covers something like at least three a day for tens years. China hasn't dropped a bomb on another country in forty years. So who do you think is more likely to use military aggression to get what they want? Who wants to change the other more when they think their values are what's best...? It's the same thing they wanted to do a hundred years ago. Is it because they're doing it for the good of all this time. They thought the same thing back then.
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Exactly, the US is not going to suddenly collapse, lol. It’s not gonna happen. It may be in a gradual decline that will take decades, even then the US will remain extremely powerful. Other countries caught up in the current US - China conflict understand this.

It has the best real estate on the planet with some of the best farmland, water, and only 300 million people. No natural enemies and protected by two oceans. It has Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc.. It’s better positioned than most countries against global warming due to abundance of natural resources.

This dream of US will collapse is a fallacy. China needs to be strong and stand up for itself against US bullying. But it’s interests are better served if US - China can be friends.

If US and China can’t be friends, then China needs to form alliances in Asia. Built up a network of friends that have similar interests, values and culture. Not just friendship based on trade or transactions.
 
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hijiki

hijiki

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The current PRC wants Japan kow-towed with head hung in shame and apologizing every year for biased WW2 victor's narrative for 10,000 years, thus stapling on the PRC-made title "little Japan".

So its not possible.

Japan is the lead country of TPP. Many of the surrounding countries have reached to Japan to form new defense relations. Only for the purpose of keeping the PRC in check.

No country on any part of the PRC's border would consider such a union with the PRC. If the PRC can't even get Taiwan, it's not getting Japan.

A fundamental change in the PRC would be necessary first for it to gain the trust of surrounding countries. Changes like those advocated in the 08 Charter and by intellectuals such as late Liu Xiaobo. But that opportunity seems long gone.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
Exactly, the US is not going to suddenly collapse, lol. It’s not gonna happen. It may be in a gradual decline that will take decades, even then the US will remain extremely powerful.

It has the best real estate on the planet with some of the best farmland, water, and only 300 million people. No natural enemies and protected by two oceans. It has Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc.. It’s better positioned than most countries against global warming due to abundance of natural resources.
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Should ask California about why they're burning then.

This dream of US will collapse is a fallacy. China needs to be strong and stand up for itself against US bullying. But it’s interests are better served if US - China can be friends.
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Much of the US enemies are within, and those are very real. The crime, the drugs, the unrest, the racism, the police brutality, the homelessness, a government that didn't give a crap, a massive debt problem, and the collapsing infrastructure.


See the gun and ammo stores? Why are the sales so brisk that ammo is backordered by months?
 
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Tam said:
Should ask California about why they're burning then.



Much of the US enemies are within, and those are very real. The crime, the drugs, the unrest, the racism, the police brutality, the homelessness, a government that didn't give a crap, a massive debt problem, and the collapsing infrastructure.


See the gun and ammo stores? Why are the sales so brisk that ammo is backordered by months?
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All of that is true. US is a melting pot of immigrants and racial tension has always been an issue. Happened many times in US histoeu So this is nothing new. It doesn’t mean the US will suddenly collapse, lol.

The vast majority of Americans does not approve of the violent protests, and want to reform the system, not destroy it.
 
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silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mr T said:
I strongly doubt that anyone on this forum was even born in 1954, let alone old enough to remember it.

You might as well bring up the colonialisation of India.
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That's weird, I thought you were speaking about history you remember, not history you personally lived through.
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
silentlurker said:
That's weird, I thought you were speaking about history you remember, not history you personally lived through.
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There's no difference between the two. What you remember is what you've experienced. You can remember being informed about something, but you can't remember an event based on what another party tells you.

For example, my grandfather told me about the time he stayed with an Italian family during the WWII Italian campaign, but I can't remember his experience because I wasn't alive at the time, let alone present.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Mr T said:
Begging for what, exactly, and when? Anyone can predict events after we're dead.

The US is unlikely to simply collapse. Over the next century it may suffer a relative decline. But it has huge advantages to keep itself afloat. Much like people have been declaring China is going to collapse, the same is done with the US every so often. For the forseeable future it's wishful thinking. Moreover if the US did go down suddenly then it would drag most of the global economy with it, which would also be really bad for China.

China, South Korea and Japan could at some point enter into a trade compact, or China might be able to join the CPATPP. But it would require significant changes in how China wanted to conduct business and resolve trade disputes. Depending on how close some sort of impartial third-party arbitration would be required, which currently Beijing would not allow as a point of principle.

An EU-style political organisation would also be impossible because currently seats in the parliament and most votes in the council are related to population size. They'd have to be allocated based on the number of member states (e.g. 1/3 for each country if China-ROK-Japan), and I'm sure China wouldn't want a situation where it could be outvoted, which might require vetoes as ASEAN has.



That would include China, which has a huge trade export surplus. What's your point, exactly? Is China going to impose trade embargoes against countries that don't sign close trade pacts? A lot of countries trade happily with China without detailed FTAs.
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I'm sure the Roman Empire thought the same thing.
 
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