indian ocean conflict

MIGleader said:

PLAN:
varyag

51cx2
52cx2
52bx2
51bx2
52x2
sovremenyx4

54x4
53h3x10

93x4
94x2
92x1
songx10
yuanx4
kilox12

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I think this list significantly underestimates the force that PLAN will have in 2012. All of the surface ships, except for the aircraft carrier, should be ready by 2007. It is harder to tell when the subs will be ready, especially for the nuclear subs, but most of them should be ready by 2007 as well. Is PLAN just going to sit and do nothing for 5 years?

It is difficult to predict exactly what PLAN will have in 2012, but it is a safe assumption that they will have more than just the vessels listed. More likely than not, PLAN will have whole new classes of ships and new weapons systems. It makes the whole discussion kind of pointless if no one has any idea what PLAN will be feilding in 2012.

MIGleader said:

the mki is undoubtedly one of the top 5 fighters in the world. and can easily carry brahmoses to attack pn ships. not even an f-16 can handle an mki. but lets not forget the chinese have mkks, j-10s, j-11s, sk;s, and the pakistanis have f-16s and fc-1s. the thais have harrier

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Actually, an F-16 armed with AMRAAM can take on the MKI at BVR range. For dog fighting, the Aim-9X can take on the MKI as well. The PAF wouldn't have picked the F-16 if it couldn't stand up against the MKI. I don't think it is wise to say, "Nothing can handle and MKI or MKK." Crazy things happen during war. And when you looked at the past kill ratios of the PAF and IAF, who would have beleived before those kill ratios that the PAF could stand up against the IAF?

crazyinsane105 said:

Actually, an F-16 armed with AMRAAM can take on the MKI at BVR range. For dog fighting, the Aim-9X can take on the MKI as well. The PAF wouldn't have picked the F-16 if it couldn't stand up against the MKI. I don't think it is wise to say, "Nothing can handle and MKI or MKK." Crazy things happen during war. And when you looked at the past kill ratios of the PAF and IAF, who would have beleived before those kill ratios that the PAF could stand up against the IAF?

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1971 was 35 years ago. Indian pilots now train with more resources as well as exercises with regional powers. Basing the outcome of the next war on how your pilots did 35 years ago is not the way to go.

Indian air to air victories vs Pakistani air to air victories





Interesting info.

Indian Naval Aviation

It's actually utterly hilarious reading Pakistanis and Indians going at it.

To Pakistanis:
If you think your navy or airforce is better or is going to be better than India's, you are delusional. Stick to getting defensive minded equipments.

To Indians:
PAK-FA is said to be entering services in 2015 by the Russian!!!! It only just finished concept drawing recently and is just entering wind tunnel testing. Considering the past Russian projects overruns, you probably won't see PAK-FA until after 2015.
Aster 15/30 + Shtil compared to Aegis? You guys crack me up.
400-500 KM Brahmos? You guys are going to have to show that you can produce a missile on your own instead of co-developing it with Russians in projects where the Russians do 95% of the work. Remember, the MTCR guideline restricts to exportation of cruise misisles to under 300KM in range.

crazyinsane105 said:

Actually, an F-16 armed with AMRAAM can take on the MKI at BVR range. For dog fighting, the Aim-9X can take on the MKI as well. The PAF wouldn't have picked the F-16 if it couldn't stand up against the MKI. I don't think it is wise to say, "Nothing can handle and MKI or MKK." Crazy things happen during war. And when you looked at the past kill ratios of the PAF and IAF, who would have beleived before those kill ratios that the PAF could stand up against the IAF?

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this is the same mki that kills falcons. the one with french avionics and tvc. and bars. its only competitiors could be the eurofighter, rafale, or f-22. when at far range, the mki can make a good fight to the f-16, all the while trying to get closer and increase its advantage.

as for f-16 vs mki, it comes down to which block of f-16 you are talking about:
If you equip F-16 with APG-81, AIM-120C and the latest engine like the one for block 60, it'd be able to take mki on, but PAF isn't going to get that. PAF probably will get a earlier version of block 50 or in some cases MLUs (which are just F-16A/B airframe/engine with block 50/52 electronics and weapons). That will have serious problems against MKIs.

tphuang said:

It's actually utterly hilarious reading Pakistanis and Indians going at it.

To Pakistanis:
If you think your navy or airforce is better or is going to be better than India's, you are delusional. Stick to getting defensive minded equipments.

To Indians:
PAK-FA is said to be entering services in 2015 by the Russian!!!! It only just finished concept drawing recently and is just entering wind tunnel testing. Considering the past Russian projects overruns, you probably won't see PAK-FA until after 2015.
Aster 15/30 + Shtil compared to Aegis? You guys crack me up.
400-500 KM Brahmos? You guys are going to have to show that you can produce a missile on your own instead of co-developing it with Russians in projects where the Russians do 95% of the work. Remember, the MTCR guideline restricts to exportation of cruise misisles to under 300KM in range.

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You just can't beleive how many people in PDF think that. I am a Pakistani but honestly, the IAF and IN are in much better shape than the PN. Now, I did make arguements how PN can fight, but only defensively. I can't see PN winning against the IN singlehandedly. Same goes with the PAF. The PAF can really hurt the IAF, but the PAF is a purely defensive force while the IAF is both a defensive and offensive one. Even with the induction of F-16's, JF-17's, and even another fighter jet, PAF will still have to deal with a huge IAF along with a thick air defense system. So PAF will still be a defensive force for another decade or so.

As for the IAF, well, I would like to know exactly what makes many Indians think that they will actually get the PAK FA. Who is the US going to give its F-22's to? Nobody. They aren't even going to give it to Israel (the US has yet to give Israel stealth tech). So why would the Russians give away their stealth plane? And EVEN if they decide to sell it, it won't be until AFTER it has been inducted into the Russian air force (and God knows how long that will take). So maybe after 2020 the IAF can get the PAK FA. As for the Brahmos, the Russians have access to the codes so that really raises questions on who made the Brahmos after all. And the IN has NOTHING compared to the Aegis and won't for a while. Yes, the Barak is a good system, but I doubt it has anything near the Aegis system. A saturated missile attack can most likely cause the system to fail. I have yet to hear of the Barak shooting down supersonic missiles (at least the USN tests the Aegis against supersonic targets). So MigLeader, very good point.

On a positive note, this conversation is very professional. If this same conversation was taking place on PDF or some other Pakistani or Indian forum, we all have a good idea of the type of language that would be used.

Russia needs money to develop the PAK-FA and they have offered India a joint development program. I havent heard any comfermation the India has accepted, but most Indians believe that India will. If India is funding part of the PAK-FA program, they will definately be getting PAK-FAs as soon as it is ready, and probably with ToT.