Indian Military News

CottageLV said:

I heard a joke before, which was quite true. The American uses most advanced technologies and made most advanced weapons. The Soviets used some outdated tech and made most advanced weapons. The Indians used most advanced technologies and made the most outdated weapons.
This is somewhat an exaggeration, but it does reflect the current indian fiasco.

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That might be a bit unfair...ok, using the best tech, even imported ones, is fine and there're more success stories - Singapore do most of their weapons this way and they can deliver on schedule and within budget.

The problem with India is that they made plans too ambitious; without considering their own capabilities to meet the demand; underestimate the complications with integrating foreign techs from such diversify sources; poor project management and changes of demands far too constant, meanwhile keep hoping to solve all their demands in one final production model; lastly, the presence of "Plan B" give everybody even less urgency.

China has no "Plan B" because just about whatever that they want nobody would sell them, so "necessity is the mother of innovation" held true for them; then there's intense competition between various companies and institutes for official funding/orders/support, if not export sales, or bust.

So in the end, they did start with the best tech (at that time), but through protracted R&D period and/or production delays their product is condemned as obsolete at the time of roll-out.

Perhaps India should consider have as many undergrads study MBA as they've with science students, plus a good degree of privatizations on the HAL and DRDO and the sort to inject motivations for self-improvement...Darwinism promotes improvement, after all.

MwRYum said:

China has no "Plan B" because just about whatever that they want nobody would sell them, so "necessity is the mother of innovation" held true for them; then there's intense competition between various companies and institutes for official funding/orders/support, if not export sales, or bust.

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I'm inclined to think that China's military has lots of "Plan B"'s.

To cite one example, 051C vs. 052C. If the domestic systems are too immature, they can still import older but proven components from Russia.

adeptitus said:

I'm inclined to think that China's military has lots of "Plan B"'s.

To cite one example, 051C vs. 052C. If the domestic systems are too immature, they can still import older but proven components from Russia.

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True. Actually a good point. I've always wondered why 051C was built in the first place, although 052C was much more advanced. Now I know.

But we have to look at the nature of the Plan B's. China's plan B is picking a different domestic supplier or domestic design. Whereas the Indians' plan B is to outsource.

indian weapon programmes are fraud

the indian millitary industry keeps coming up with ambitious "future weapon programmes", they never mean to deliver those weapons, all they want is using those programmes to milk the gov't, after decades of delay and over run the budget by many folds, the programme will be cancelled.

CottageLV said:

I heard a joke before, which was quite true. The American uses most advanced technologies and made most advanced weapons. The Soviets used some outdated tech and made most advanced weapons. The Indians used most advanced technologies and made the most outdated weapons.

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You didn't quote the complete joke .... here is the full version:

The American uses most advanced technologies and made most advanced weapons. The Soviets used some outdated tech and made most advanced weapons. The Indians used most advanced technologies and made the most outdated weapons. The Chinese used to the most outdated tech to make the most outdated weapons.

Sorry, for the heartburn caused, but I simply couldn't resist the poetic symmetry which as obvious.

bingo said:

You didn't quote the complete joke .... here is the full version:

The American uses most advanced technologies and made most advanced weapons. The Soviets used some outdated tech and made most advanced weapons. The Indians used most advanced technologies and made the most outdated weapons. The Chinese used to the most outdated tech to make the most outdated weapons.

Sorry, for the heartburn caused, but I simply couldn't resist the poetic symmetry which as obvious.

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very funny but i would say The Chinese used some outdated tech to make some advanced weapons.

I think he missed out the last part because it is the only case where the use of the past tense is correct.

The foundamental problem with the Indian military industrial development is mirrored in pretty much all aspects of Indian development and is more a problem of the national psychie than merely isolated to a single industry or company - an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

The Chinese have advanced so far so quickly because they have a kind of victim mentality where they feel that everyone and everything is arranged against them and rooting for, or even working towards China's failure. The Chinese have managed to harness that sense of victimisation into a positive driving force, spurring them on to work harder and fight for what they feel is there rightful place in the world with tooth and nail. They are determined to work hard and succeed to stick the middle finger at all the people and organisations that have tried to put China down and keep it down by succeeding and exceeding all expectations and doing what others insist they cannot.

The Indians in contrast, buys far too much into western propaganda and seemed to collectively think that just because they are a billion strong, is a democrasy and has a free and impartial legal and media system yada yada yada, that they have a god-given right to succeed and do better than China. And that it is only a matter of time before these advantages allows India to not only catch up to, but surpass China once and for all.

This in turn has breed a streak of complatency and an unwillingness to do the hard graft and make the kinds of sacrifices needed to ensure they meet their potential. After all, why work so hard and suffer all that hardship if you are all but gaurenteed to enjoy the fruits you always wanted regardless?

Both China and India feel that their current positions are far below where they deserve to be. The Chinese response is to work extra hard to make sure they get to where they feel they desire and are almost terrified that if they do not work hard enough, all the forces and powers arranged against them will succeed in keeping them from their rightful place.

The Indian response seems to be that if it is taking too long or turning out to be too hard to do something, they will just get someone else to do it for them, and theycan enjoy the benefits of whatever they wanted without having to spend the time and effort develop it ourselves.

I think which method holds more merit in the long-term is clear for all to see.

plawolf said:

I think he missed out the last part because it is the only case where the use of the past tense is correct.

The foundamental problem with the Indian military industrial development is mirrored in pretty much all aspects of Indian development and is more a problem of the national psychie than merely isolated to a single industry or company - an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

The Chinese have advanced so far so quickly because they have a kind of victim mentality where they feel that everyone and everything is arranged against them and rooting for, or even working towards China's failure. The Chinese have managed to harness that sense of victimisation into a positive driving force, spurring them on to work harder and fight for what they feel is there rightful place in the world with tooth and nail. They are determined to work hard and succeed to stick the middle finger at all the people and organisations that have tried to put China down and keep it down by succeeding and exceeding all expectations and doing what others insist they cannot.

The Indians in contrast, buys far too much into western propaganda and seemed to collectively think that just because they are a billion strong, is a democrasy and has a free and impartial legal and media system yada yada yada, that they have a god-given right to succeed and do better than China. And that it is only a matter of time before these advantages allows India to not only catch up to, but surpass China once and for all.

This in turn has breed a streak of complatency and an unwillingness to do the hard graft and make the kinds of sacrifices needed to ensure they meet their potential. After all, why work so hard and suffer all that hardship if you are all but gaurenteed to enjoy the fruits you always wanted regardless?

Both China and India feel that there current positions are far below where they deserve to be. The Chinese response is to work extra hard to make sure they get to where they feel they desire and are almost terrified that if they do not work hard enough, all the forces and powers arranged against them will succeed in keeping them from their rightful place.

The Indian response seems to be that if it is taking too long or turning out to be too hard to do something, we will just get someone else to do it for us, and we can enjoy the benefits of whatever we wanted without having to spend the time and effort develop it ourselves.

I think which method holds more merit in the long-term is clear for all to see.

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i think what india is really lacking is an powerfull industrial base.
i don't understand why they want to jump to directly services based economy.
Every other major power have made big investissement into industrial base (US, Europe, Russia, Japan, China) before switching to services based economy(US, EU). China also would have to that in the next decades but will maitain a powerfull industrial base like US. Without that indian are just dreaming.

Tirtiary sector services industry is higher up the industrialisation food chain than secondary sector manufacturing. Thus moving to services will allow more advanced economy than focusing on manufacturing first.

It is no joke that sometimes the Indian attitude and mentality remind me of the Great Leap Forward.

plawolf said:

It is no joke that sometimes the Indian attitude and mentality remind me of the Great Leap Forward.

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yes it is that. it is more strange that they don't seem to recognize that they are in the wrong road like china has done and reverse to the right road.