A Bar Brother
Junior Member
The Rafale deal will most likely be cancelled. The French side do not plan on adhering to the RFP and DPP clauses.
It is not official yet.
It is not official yet.
Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Miragedriver
Brigadier
India could build six submarines under license Soryu Japanese
(defensa.com) The Indian government is considering building their country under license in six submarines of Japanese conventional propulsion Soryu class. According to local media collected, India have asked to Japan the possibility to build six submarines under license in Indian shipyards for a sum of over 8,100 million. Recall that the government of Prime Minister Modi has refocused many military programs to local construction, following the motto "Make in India", allowing participation of foreign companies as technology partners. This would involve the formation of a joint venture between Japanese yards Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation with local companies.
As has been reporting, Australia is interested in this type of submarines, of which at the moment is negotiating the purchase or joint production of up to twelve submarines. Japan has offered India Navy maritime patrol seaplanes US-2i of India would have agreed to acquire six units, negotiation that has been announced since January last year.
7
Back to bottling my Grenache
(defensa.com) The Indian government is considering building their country under license in six submarines of Japanese conventional propulsion Soryu class. According to local media collected, India have asked to Japan the possibility to build six submarines under license in Indian shipyards for a sum of over 8,100 million. Recall that the government of Prime Minister Modi has refocused many military programs to local construction, following the motto "Make in India", allowing participation of foreign companies as technology partners. This would involve the formation of a joint venture between Japanese yards Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation with local companies.
As has been reporting, Australia is interested in this type of submarines, of which at the moment is negotiating the purchase or joint production of up to twelve submarines. Japan has offered India Navy maritime patrol seaplanes US-2i of India would have agreed to acquire six units, negotiation that has been announced since January last year.
7
Back to bottling my Grenache
eurofighter presentation for aero india 2015
considering the circumstances, interesting.......................
A Bar Brother
Junior Member
They have no chance. It is either Rafale or bust. The IAF will look for a Russian replacement. Either more MKI or more FGFA.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
BB what's your opinion on Aam Aadmi winning the Dehli state and growing stronger every day ? ... and will it have any effect on India's defence procurement for the future? especially with the MRCA deal with Dassault going south really quickly?
Also you sound positive about the Typhoon not happening.. while I agree somewhat but there is no way to be 100% sure. I mean didn't they come very close in besting out Rafale? Maybe Eurofighter will sweeten the deal given the possible 2nd chance.
That might be the better scenario in the long run. Less types to support. Also gives more resources to upgrade MKIs and purchasing LCAs.
A Bar Brother
Junior Member
It was an incredible victory for the party. Took everyone by surprise. But they have zero experience. Where they will really help is by passing a very stringent anti-corruption bill. If they succeed here, they may have a good chance 4 years later, during the national elections.
No. AAP's Delhi victory is similar to winning California or Texas. They have no say in the central govt or foreign policy. It is a state election.
India's procurement policy doesn't allow a govt to govt deals when competitors are available. It is allowed in very specific conditions, and happens very rarely. It was allowed during the Apache tender. The Apache's closest competitor, the Mi-28N, lost during the technical evaluations on 20 parameters. So the Defence Acquisition Council(DAC) gave permission to the MoD to negotiate with Boeing for the Apache even though competitors were available.
According to the Defence Procurement Policy(DPP), if a competitor loses a tender, that's EADS, the door closes on them. If they want to come back in the race, then the govt will have to cancel the current Rafale deal and release a new tender and EADS will have to start from scratch again, along with the other competitors who lost.
The govt has canceled many deals because competitors either withdrew or were rejected during technical evaluations. Twice when it came to engine development with GTRE.
Govt to govt deals happen only when there is no competitor available. For eg: The F-35 wasn't considered a peer competitor to the FGFA, hence the FGFA deal was a govt to govt deal. Similarly, the P-8I, C-17 and C-130 did not have immediate competitors, hence were FMS deals.
This is why EADS has no chance for a comeback without a new tender. It is no different for the other competitors, including the Mig-35. Being second best means nothing.
However in some extreme cases, the DAC does allow a govt to govt contract even when competitors are available. This is mainly when the enemy achieves strategic surprise, like the Pakistanis buying the T-80UD.
Of course, once a deal is signed, it can be repeated any number of times with the same supplier. That's why follow-on contracts become easy due to significantly lesser bureaucratic red tape, making more MKIs the most obvious option. And a second option would be to buy the Russian version of PAKFAs a few years before the FGFA becomes available, since the deal has already received all the necessary govt clearances. Or a combination of both.
The DPP has been designed to prevent corruption and reduce allegations of unfairness by the losers. NH tried the same against Sikorsky and failed during the helicopter tender.
Some examples regarding the importance of single vendor situations in India with unique scenarios.
Multirole helicopter deal
VVIP helicopter corruption case
CBI is the same as the FBI in the US. They deal with corruption cases.
Avro replacement
Jaguar re-engine program
Sorry for the long post. Now, you know why I'm sure the Typhoon has no chance without a new tender being announced.
A Bar Brother
Junior Member
Rafale was meant to solve two other problems that the MKI and LCA don't. One was to arrest the squadron shortfall and the other was to bring in large investments from the OEM into the Indian aerospace industry through the offsets clause.
We bought C-17s and Boeing setup a high altitude engine test facility for India worth over $500 Million. This is the type of investment we were looking at with Rafale, considering the size of the deal.
As for squadron shortfall, the idea was to have 3 different assembly lines with the MKI, LCA and Rafale. Now we will have to make do with just two. And LCA has some ways to go before the IAF is sure about adding it to their arsenal. Until then the IAF will have only one assembly line with a reliable aircraft instead of two. What was supposed to be 50 fighters a year could possibly become 32 fighters a year.
Also a lot of people do not know this, but one of the prime requirements for the MRCA deal was the aircraft was not supposed to be a prototype. Rafale is a perfect fit for the IAF. It is nuclear capable, unlike MKI and LCA. It is war proven. It is operational with AESA and other goodies. As it stands today, there will be no equivalent aircraft to the Rafale until the beginning of the next decade. There are too many things that the Rafale offers to the IAF that the MKI and LCA will only offer in the future. The IAF only had to get the aircraft in and start flying operationally. It is a war-ready aircraft, unlike Super MKI or LCA Mk2.
Anyway, don't quote me on the Rafale being cancelled yet. Things may change overnight. Only official news is real news.
