Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
Well, tou do have a point here. I have been sutprised how members here look down on India on almost everything and downplay them in anyway. It looks very similar to the way i see american forums who always look fown on China and laugh at their military capabilties vis a vis the US.
The worse thing you can do is look down on your opponent. The same way the americans and westerners found out before and during WWII against Japan. Americans/British used to laugh and look down on anything Japan did and even saw them as inferior even as a race. Lol WWII was a wake up call for them agter the lost to the Japanese earlier in the war from Phillipines to malaysia/Hongkong etc etc. If not for US vast natural resources and induatrial might to outproduce Japan, i believe the US would have lost to Japan and be kicked out of Asia forever. So never look down on your opponent NO MATTER WHAT, especially when it becomes a habit in every sector..
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People do not look down on India due to race. In fact, I would argue India had a lot of respect even couple of years ago in most of the world. But then India slowly got radicalized by BJP into an arrogant fascist state with extreme nationalism. They tried to bully their neighbours and even tried to fight China itself. Indian immigrants themselves started showing arrogance in various countries where they migrated to escape their own poor country. India even assasinated people in the west.

I think all these factors are slowly adding up and people around the world have started to realize how bad India has become when it comes to arrogance. You can be poor. But if you try to act rich and powerful with fake lies and overhype yourself when you are poor, that will make you a target of great contempt.

I see a parallel of India as a poorer version of fascist Italy. Too much arrogance without the strength, organization or national unity to back it. They bit off more than they could chew and then got clobbered by actual great powers.

As I have discussed before, there is a great chance that India gets attacked by both China and US at the same time because of its arrogance. So instead of US trying to entice India to ally with US to jointly fight China, both US and China get tired of India's actions then decide to teach them a lesson.

US starting a trade war on India is an indication of that trend. No more free lunch for India.
 
phrozenflame

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nevermore said:
India plans to purchase over 100 French Rafale fighter jets, with the earliest deployment of fifth-generation fighters projected for 2035. Does this provide sufficient justification for China to export the J-35AE to Pakistan?
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It's better for India to spend tons of money on Rafales and then J-35s can come and just undo the billions in Indian investment. By that time, PLAAF would have also sorted out all the kinks you find and discover in any new platforms along with maturing of the doctrines etc.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
phrozenflame said:
It's better for India to spend tons of money on Rafales and then J-35s can come and just undo the billions in Indian investment. By that time, PLAAF would have also sorted out all the kinks you find and discover in any new platforms along with maturing of the doctrines etc.
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Yeah, it's a bit ironic. Doubling down just to pretend that everything went fine?
May as well buy with PL-15 attached to the tail.
 
G

GiantPanda

Junior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
The worse thing you can do is look down on your opponent. The same way the americans and westerners found out before and during WWII against Japan.
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No, the worst thing China can do is to actually divert even a significant part of its attention from the East Coast to India. The Himalayas block any real fight there -- and the Indians are an exceptionally vehement type of braggarts whose real danger comes from their propaganda.

Do not deny over their strengths when they have them but do not gloss their incompetencies when those are obvious as well.

Their carriers which are what are in questions here do not deploy at even a faction of China's STOBARs. We know this because as capitol ships showing the flag they are entirely missing from even their home region.
 
_killuminati_

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
Their priorities are, (1)local unrest, (2)clear trade routes, (3)not fail too much when compared to Pakistan, in this order. Yes, last one is unimpressive, but given that gdp difference is >10 times(i.e. India is much better governed even per capita), anything short of demilitarization sort of works for them.
When Pakistan was an actual threat in 1960-70s, Indians did quite well.
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Why Indian military equipment is just 1-2× the size of Pakistan's despite having 10× larger GDP + defense budget? That sounds more like a massive inefficiency.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
_killuminati_ said:
Why Indian military equipment is just 1-2× the size of Pakistan's despite having 10× larger GDP + defense budget? That sounds more like a massive inefficiency.
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B/c there is no perceived threat. Pakistan isn't really one after the 1971 war, and especially after both nations went nuclear. India is just bigger, and aims higher.
Pakistan is "the enemy", sure...but at the same time, it's more or less a nuisance, from Indian perspective. Which ironically makes losses all the more humiliating, but this is a humiliation that can't reach out to general population.
On a broader scale - Pakistan isn't threat to independence or anything, and whatever indian politicians say - not a single sane one even for a second considers that China is preparing Hannibal-style invasion over the Himalayas. This leads to armed forces being sort of redundant in their "war" role, performing more as a social instutution.

It's the same situation as Russia v Ukraine - with latter being absolute examplary case of utterly bad management in everything other than army (2015-22) - horrible national development and trajectory. But army managed to get quite a lot from the resources it had, because national consensus (including elites) was there.

Pakistan, overall, is similar - and problem isn't just the metrics, it's their trajectory (per capita, reach of education/literacy, etc. in India is now ahead almost universally, even backward states are now ahead of Pakistan. It was worse across the whole nation not even that long time ago).
But ironically, the worse Pakistan is off, the more is push for (already highly prestigious) military to deliver. And since Pakistan does have a rather well established, non-comprador elites, it can pull it off.
 
_killuminati_

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
....
Gloire_bb said:
B/c there is no perceived threat. Pakistan isn't really one after the 1971 war, and especially after both nations went nuclear. India is just bigger, and aims higher.
Pakistan is "the enemy", sure...but at the same time, it's more or less a nuisance, from Indian perspective. Which ironically makes losses all the more humiliating, but this is a humiliation that can't reach out to general population.
On a broader scale - Pakistan isn't threat to independence or anything, and whatever indian politicians say - not a single sane one even for a second considers that China is preparing Hannibal-style invasion over the Himalayas. This leads to armed forces being sort of redundant in their "war" role, performing more as a social instutution.

It's the same situation as Russia v Ukraine - with latter being absolute examplary case of utterly bad management in everything other than army (2015-22) - horrible national development and trajectory. But army managed to get quite a lot from the resources it had, because national consensus (including elites) was there.

Pakistan, overall, is similar - and problem isn't just the metrics, it's their trajectory (per capita, reach of education/literacy, etc. in India is now ahead almost universally, even backward states are now ahead of Pakistan. It was worse across the whole nation not even that long time ago).
But ironically, the worse Pakistan is off, the more is push for (already highly prestigious) military to deliver. And since Pakistan does have a rather well established, non-comprador elites, it can pull it off.
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That really doesn't explain much about the size difference.

India's def budget in 2024 was $86b, Pakistan's was $7.6b. Indian 11× higher. In 2014, it was Pak : Ind $7b : $37b. But India's equipment and personnel are not 11× higher, not even 5× higher, neither now nor in 2014. Examples (appr. raw estimates):

Airforce (excl. trainer/uav/heli)
Pak: 461
Ind: 890

Armored vehicles
Pak: 2677
Ind: 3513

Artillery
Pak: 3783
Ind: 5661

Naval surface combat fleet (excl. patrol/aux)
Pak: 30
Ind: 83

Naval aviation (excl trainer/uav)
Pak: 53
Ind: 217

Total active personnel
Pak: 0.66m
Ind: 1.43m

Reserve personnel
Pak: 0.55m
Ind: 1m

Afaik, ~70% of that budget in India goes to salaries/pensions/op readiness/maintenance/infra, while for Pak it is ~55%. The remaining is allocated to R&D and acquisitions.
_____

So where's the 11× higher budget going, even 70% of it?
Certainly not in equipment & personnel.

It looks like an inefficiency, possibly corruption or false inflated figure.
 
G

GiantPanda

Junior Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
B/c there is no perceived threat. Pakistan isn't really one after the 1971 war, and especially after both nations went nuclear. India is just bigger, and aims higher.
Pakistan is "the enemy", sure...but at the same time, it's more or less a nuisance, from Indian perspective.
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A nuisance is what India is to China. The only reason India is even considered a foe by some outsiders is because India's propaganda incessantly claims China as an enemy because they do not want to be paired with Pakistan. They are trying to elevate themselves by creating a rivalry with China.

But there is no profit to China ever fighting a proper war with India and little ability for either side to really do so beyond straighening out the border here or there. That lack of importance is the reason why when there is a border issue, things are kept at the clubs and sticks level.

I have NEVER seen a single picture from either side of an actual intercept or confrontation between Chinese or Indian aircraft and warships unlike those of China's actual rivals where there are countless photos and videos of encounters with the US, Japan, RoC and the rest of the US allies.

Because of this purely propaganda aspect created by the Indian side, it is far better for China to ignore and simply point out their lies as well as their incompetency than to divert any real attention from actual foes to deal with this nuisance.
 
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