Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
4Tran said:
I'm not seeing a whole lot of acceptance here. The article even notes that the J-35A doesn't have a gun so why would it stick around after it has fired off its PL-15s? Are we to assume that a J-35A would have an air superiority load out of 2x PL-15 and 2x PL-10? Whether the Rafale is better at WVR combat is irrelevant because the fight will never get that close unless the Rafales somehow manage to pull off an ambush. Also the whole "we will survive the PL-15s because SPECTRA will protect us" thing just stinks. Here's another hint: if you ever see the words "Proven in Operation Sindoor" in an article, you know that it's going to be BS.
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This is in addition to the fact where in the coming years, the J-20/A/S, J-35A and even the 6th-gens won't even going to be the first PLAAF warplanes which the Jai Hind Rafales will face against - It will be the various types of UADFs which would br available in greater numbers, having superior kinematic performances, and be more acceptable to attrition than their overpriced and precious Rafales, among other attributes.

Let alone the fact where the IAF only possess subpar AEW&C capabilitiy, combined with laughable ELINT, ECM and ESM capabilities to speak of. Coupled with
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, I don't see how they are going to fare any better for the foreseeable future.
 
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FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
tamsen_ikard said:
According to this article, Tiny rafale with 2 engines has 1850 KM combat radius vs J-35 only having 1200 KM, when J-35 is significantly bigger. Yeah, this is the kind of terrible claims Indians make when they compare whatever India has with the PLA and somehow make themselves come out on top.
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Perhaps they derived combat radius from ferry range and failed to take into account for the fact that Rafale would be only carrying drop tanks while ferrying?
 
mossen

mossen

Junior Member
Registered Member
4Tran said:
I think the Rafale is a pretty good fighter jet, and it's a good match for India's needs. The main problem with it is that it's way too expensive for what capabilities it offers. It's also overhyped, but that's not really a problem with the plane itself.
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Yeah, I've been saying the same thing. Rafale is a perfectly decent plane. It being overhyped by Indians isn't a problem with the plane itself but with random Indian copes. It is overpriced, however.

The Indians have only themselves to blame for nixing a much better deal in the early 2010s when France offered a large amount of planes for much cheaper. Modi also dissed the Russians when they offered co-production of SU-57. That's why India gets to overpay, because they didn't do their homework when it counted.

More on the deal from ToI:

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The defence ministry has begun examining a proposal from the
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(IAF) to procure 114 "Made in India" Rafale fighter jets in collaboration with French manufacturer Dassault Aviation and Indian aerospace firms.Estimated to be worth over Rs 2 lakh crore, with more than 60 percent indigenous content, the mega deal is expected to be taken up by the Defence Procurement Board, headed by the Defence Secretary, in the coming weeks
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I interpret this as "local assembly with zero tech transfer".
 
A

Albatross

New Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
How they aren't up to the task? If they can launch sufficient attack wave, they're up for it. Everything else is down to aircraft.
Indian carriers are barely less capable than 001 type, and can together launch ~24 aircraft in one wave(against 001s 14, i.e. 28 for two).

Mig-29 carries good anti-ship missiles, it carries ARMs, it carries good stand off fixed target munitions (Rampage). It has modern jammers, in last Belorussian talisman (barely 2 years old). It even can carry more of those than rafale.
What it doesn't have is AESA and targeting pod - neither terribly relevant for attacking landing operations. And indeed, Rafale(which is in near future) has aesa, targeting pod and longer-range "screw off" weapon.

AESA and AAM don't matter for strike, only to fight their way through (if there is intercept, and it's numerous enough to stop sheer mass of attacking aircraft). Also, things are relative - we still haven't seen PL-15 on carriers, and everything is tied on PL-16. Which is not confirmed operationally.
Against somewhat simpler AAMs, their weapons(RVV-SD and Astra) are perfectly viable.
It's refuelling isn't dissimilar from that SHornets can do. Good enough for immediate refill after take off, doesn't work for anything else. And in this role it's better than Su-33/J-15; 4 tanks is a lot of fuel.

That was cruel against any carrier arm other than US, and 90% applies to China (other than J-15D). 003 isn't operational yet.
Airborne EW doesn't really matter that much in stand off fixed area strikes, though.

Well, attacking landing area v. US is broadly similar to same operations v. non-US.
Not exactly pretty, but there is no magic involved. Yes, it's hard to win against wastly superior force(as Japanese found out in 1944), but this isn't so much about IN carriers at this point. Their capability is here, there's just not enough of it.
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Let's go through MiG-29K's strike options:

- Rampage is only mach 1.0-1.6, combine that with high flying, and it's easy target for any SAM. Only thing it has going for it is that it's cheaper than cruise missiles.

- KH-35 is a subsonic cruise missile with 130 km range

- KH-31 being high supersonic is the only relatively good option but with limited range of 70 km and high flying
 
G

GiantPanda

Junior Member
Registered Member
valysre said:
In fairness, the countries around India are less likely to field the number of fishermen, military patrols, etc. to capture imagery of Indian carriers. That being said, I think if the Indian carriers actually did regularly deploy and perform flight sortie training, the Indian MoD would publish that footage. Or an Indian sailor aboard the vessel would publish footage.
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The countries around India actually border it. Pakistan and Bangladesh operate in waters adjacent to India. If the Indian carriers actually deploy they would be noticed along the seaboards of both immensely populated nations. There is no way to miss them. In fact, navies who have carriers and could deploy them would deliberately make sure they are noticed to show the flag.

Actually, any navy that can operate carriers in the region would assert them in the massively used trade routes and littorals of the Arabia Sea and Bay Bengal. If they deploy anywhere else it would actually make them irrelevant.

But we know India's carriers do not deploy. There are many, many satellite images for Chinese ones on patrol but hardly any for Indian carriers:

IMG_6906.jpeg

IMG_6907.jpeg

If you have capital ships like carriers and no one even notice them then they are not deploying period.
 
Gloire_bb

Gloire_bb

Major
Registered Member
Albatross said:
Let's go through MiG-29K's strike options:

- Rampage is only mach 1.0-1.6, combine that with high flying, and it's easy target for any SAM. Only thing it has going for it is that it's cheaper than cruise missiles.

- KH-35 is a subsonic cruise missile with 130 km range

- KH-31 being high supersonic is the only relatively good option but with limited range of 70 km and high flying
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(1)Treat as MLR missile. Yes, not too difficult. Not a big deal if it's shot down, as it's very reproducible.
Sensible stand off options are not all that available around the world, Israel is arguably among world leaders there (and more broadly in non-strategic albm in general).

(2)MTCR limit for Kh-35u. In any case it's better than Exocet, and there's more of them per aircraft.

(3) Ironically, KH-31 is considered the worst, because speed is the only thing going for it. It's related dumb.

Add on top rafale SCALPs and future Brahmos-MA(though I frankly wonder how much it will lift off the ramp), and even without closing in, strike options are solid.
What Indian decks really need now are:
-more modern AEW helicopter
-more modern ASW helicopters
Upgrades to mig a2a capabilities come somewhere after that. It's desirable, but not absolutely urgent just yet.
 
D

defenceman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi,
even after getting su57 or may be F35 Indians primary enemy is on its eastern border with
all the gadgets they are having now or in future they dare to attack China and will try on pakistan
to show their strength until unless QUAD type of alliance come for their back they will never attack
China directly indian will welcome more if some other power use its bases or infrastructure to attack
China directly & its not in the interest of China to attack India so indian can show their might towards
eastern flank to show the world they are eligible for the UN permanent security seat
thank you
 
M

Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
Gloire_bb said:
This is mostly b/c Japan tends to announce everything(as well as have capability to track everything).
If not for them, we won't have anywhere near this amount of data on China's decks...

i.e. this is the case where abscence of evidence isn't evidence of abscence.


Are they though? I didn't see much data on their deployments and training routine. No one really cares abt them, until they're declared bad by default. But do we have data points for that?

While they're smaller(which is true) 001s are just too much 11435s to be good. Furthermore, not insignificant amount of added deck real estate is eaten by way larger feishas.
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Well, tou do have a point here. I have been sutprised how members here look down on India on almost everything and downplay them in anyway. It looks very similar to the way i see american forums who always look down on China and laugh at their military capabilties vis a vis the US. Lol
The worse thing you can do is look down on your opponent. The same way the americans and westerners found out before and during WWII against Japan. Americans/British used to laugh and look down on anything Japan did and even saw them as inferior even as a race. The same way the Russian empire in the 1905 looked down on Japan until Japan destroyed their entire naval fleet and kicked them out of Asia for the foreseeable future. Lol. That was the first time an Asian power had defeated a European power in the modern era, you would have thought this woulf have been a lesson to other weatern powera but no. The US, Britain, France etc still looked down on them.
WWII was another wake up call for them after the lost to the Japanese earlier in the war from Phillipines to malaysia/Hongkong etc etc. If not for US vast natural resources and industrial might to outproduce Japan, i believe the US would have lost to Japan and be kicked out of Asia forever. So never look down on your opponent NO MATTER WHAT, especially when it becomes a habit in every sector. In fact, its better to overestimate your opponents capabilities tban underestimate them. One word is enough for the wise. :)
 
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