Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

sndef888 said:

Look, the Tejas is considered a piece of junk exactly because of it's size. Nobody really wants a fighter with MTOW of 13.5 tons in 2023 unless they are cheap and have good value like JF-17 and FA50.

Slightly smaller RCS (that's still orders of magnitudes larger than 5th gen standards) does not make up for the drawbacks like lack of range, low payload and weaker radars which matter more for 4th gen fighters.

India tried too hard to make Tejas an advanced, high tech do-it-all fighter when they should have stuck to making a cheap bomb truck with passable a2a capabilities.

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The RCS of Tejas MK1 is 0.5 meter square which will decrease further in Mark1A
Tejas is 90% carbon composite by body surface area and 45% carbon composite by weight
The weight of MK1 is 6500kg which will reduce by 1000kg in MK1A further increasing weight carrying capacity , Thrust to weight ratio and range
It has 9 hardpoints it can carry , Brahmos NG air to ground and air to ship missile having Indian Radar and Mission computer means it can carry all kind of air to air to ground missiles and bombs be it Israeli Python , American AIM-120 , Russian R-77 , European Meteor or Indian Astra
The radar of a fighter jet is among the most important components and Tejas comes with Gallium Arsenide UTTAM AESA Radar which has 992 TR modules and it will get replaced with Gallium Nitride AESA Radar in future which India is already working on

Chandragupt said:

All of them will get replaced with Indian made systems and subsystems be it the Ukrainian engine the radars or the fighter jets
Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) is under development for Indian Navy it looks like Korean KF21
stealth design without internal weapons bay
View attachment 105843
I like the design of Indian made fighter jets they look so cool

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KF-21
Twin canted vertical stabilisers.
Side mounted caret inlet.
Possible to introduce weapons bay in the next step.

TEDBF
One vertical stabiliser, an absolute no-no for stealth.
Under-rib (as Rafale and JF-17) mounted DSI inlet (as JF-17).
Never able to have weapons bay due to the location of the air inlets that eats up the space under the fuselage.

The overall arrangement is much closer to Rafale than anything else. It is a Rafale with some sharp edge treatment which I highly doubt its usefulness for improving its LO.

taxiya said:

KF-21
Twin canted vertical stabilisers.
Side mounted caret inlet.
Possible to introduce weapons bay in the next step.

TEDBF
One vertical stabiliser, an absolute no-no for stealth.
Under-rib (as Rafale and JF-17) mounted DSI inlet (as JF-17).
Never able to have weapons bay due to the location of the air inlets that eats up the space under the fuselage.

The overall arrangement is much closer to Rafale than anything else. It is a Rafale with some sharp edge treatment which I highly doubt its usefulness for improving its LO.

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Even Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Aeronautical Development Agency doesn't claim that TEDBF is stealth but looking at the geometry anyone can easily say that they have tried to make it as stealth as possible the real stealth fighter jet which Indians are making is Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)

Chandragupt said:

Even Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Aeronautical Development Agency doesn't claim that TEDBF is stealth but looking at the geometry anyone can easily say that they have tried to make it as stealth as possible the real stealth fighter jet which Indians are making is Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
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So they will build all of these (Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA) after sorting out their problems on the Tejas ? Or they will just cancel them one after the other ?

Chandragupt said:

Even Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Aeronautical Development Agency doesn't claim that TEDBF is stealth but looking at the geometry anyone can easily say that they have tried to make it as stealth as possible the real stealth fighter jet which Indians are making is Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
View attachment 105949
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I was replying to your comment of "similarities" between TEDBF with KF-21. AMCA is a different matter.

Since you mention it, I will present my observation of AMCA.
The first photo shows similarity to F-22. 1. caret inlets and 2. horizontal stabilisers join main wings. 3 main wings corner clippings.
The last two photos show similarity to J-35. 1. DSI inlets. 2. gaps between horizontal stabilisers and main wings. 3. the wing shapes looking from top side.

I believe that the last two photos are newer iteration.

Atomicfrog said:

So they will build all of these (Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA) after sorting out their problems on the Tejas ? Or they will just cancel them one after the other ?

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Tejas took first flight in 2001 and the first combat ready Tejas with Initial Operational Clearance was delivered in 2012 , the one with final operational clearance was delivered in 2016 and MK1A is awaiting delivery in 2024 they didn't cancel Tejas MK1 despite facing so much of delays why would they cancel Tejas MK2 which has to enter mass production in 2027 , TEDBF 2030 and AMCA 2035
They have perfected most of the critical technologies except for the engine and day by day they're inching closer to perfect turbofan engine as well

Chandragupt said:

why would they cancel Tejas MK2 which has to enter mass production in 2027 , TEDBF 2030 and AMCA 2035

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Well, the cynic in me says they wouldn't. There's a lot of grift to be had. I think most people have a negative perception of India's defense sector, not even because it lacks the technical expertise in comparison to its peers, but because of the alleged corruption that causes delays and cancellations of major programs.

I'm happy to be shown wrong however, I never really followed India that closely.

Atomicfrog said:

So they will build all of these (Mk2, TEDBF, AMCA) after sorting out their problems on the Tejas ? Or they will just cancel them one after the other ?

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I think it is quite clear that there is a management issue.
The first iteration of the LCA included all the subsystems as part of it's development targets.

When it was clear that neither the radar or the engine would be finished in the "near future" (the near future of then being more than 25 years ago), finally the Kaveri and Radar were extricated from the LCA as a whole. However, you had already put in 20 years at THAT time.

The inability for the Indian MIC to set modest goals for most of these programs means they either don't get finished, or are outdated by the time they are introduced. I can understand why @Lethe would say the fatalities experienced with the LCH program can be considered "acceptable losses" from that perspective.

Chandragupt said:

I have read about this little fighter jet it's indeed the best in it's category.

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As I told you before, Gripen and Tejas are in the same category even having the same engine. And if you don't think Gripen E is a lot better than Tejas Mk1A or Mk2 then you really should reevaluate the materials you have read about that little fighter. And don't bring up "India INDIGENOUS UTTAM RADAR" it does not matter one bit in terms of combat effectivity.

zavve said:

As I told you before, Gripen and Tejas are in the same category even having the same engine. And if you don't think Gripen E is a lot better than Tejas Mk1A or Mk2 then you really should reevaluate the materials you have read about that little fighter. And don't bring up "India INDIGENOUS UTTAM RADAR" it does not matter one bit in terms of combat effectivity.

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I bring it up because the UTTAM MK2 AESA Radar which is installed on Tejas MK1A has 992 TR Modules
The RBE-2 Radar of rafales has 800 TR module only not to mention Rafales are much bigger and heavier compared to Tejas MK1A
I keep mentioning Indian Made UTTAM AESA Radar because an Indian made radar and mission computer can be integrated with Israeli , American , European , Russian and Indian weapons so is not the case with Russian , American or European Radars and Mission computer
Su30MKI has Israeli missiles only because it has mission computer