Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
ABM/BMD:

India is the 4th country after US Russia Israel to have own indigenous BMD/ABM system deployed


It comprises of AAD endo-atmospheric & PDV exo-atmospheric interceptors

System guarantees 99.8% kill probability through simultaneous launch of 2 endo & 2 exo atmospheric interceptors at a hostile ballistic target of 3000 km range class

India is now on final development stage of advanced AD-1 & AD-2 hypersonic endo & exo atmospheric interceptors which can intercept > 5000 km range targets ( ICBMs )

Slide from DRDO presentation comparing US THAAD and DRDO PDV exo atmospheric interceptors

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Another slide from DRDO presentation comparing US PAC-3 and DRDO AAD endo atmospheric interceptors

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Indian BMD/ABM employs long range GaAs and GaN AESA based radars

Initially 1 Israeli radar (LRTR-1) was bought range > 600 km

Later DRDO improved Israeli radar to > 1500 km (LRTR-2) then own built radar > 2500 km (LRTR-3)

Fire control is by MFCR a JV with France

Now DRDO own LRMFR to provide fire control, range is many times than MFCR (range classified)

Then VLRTR ( Very long range tracking radar ) > 3000 km.
2 units are deployed by NTRO & defence space agency (DSA) for military space surveillance and tracking
Indian grasp of Rockets/ Ballistics are meeting Israeli strength in electronics to develop Indian BMD .

And of course, that news was of 2006 when India first tested it but the limited deployment happened by 2019. China started testing ABMs as early as 1970s. So, I really question the value of such claims.
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Can you update Wikipedia of the VLRTR radar range of 2500 km or 3000km because Wiki says the Super Swordfish / VLRTR range ( itself a development with Israeli support) is 1500 km.
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Also, this piece from 2014
Israel has long offered a partnership in BMD development, particularly the Arrow system by Israel Aerospace Industries. The sources said New Dehli began to express strong interest only in 2013 when Israel proposed a program that would integrate and enhance Indian air defense assets.

"The Indians were looking for Israeli expertise and technology that would allow New Dehli to eventually work on its own in BMD,” the source said. “They were not interested in an off-the-shelf Arrow purchase." The initial agreement would partner IAI as well as Israel’s state-owned Rafael with India’s Defense Research and Development Organization, Bharat Dynamics and Bharat Electronics. All of the participants are state-owned entities, and Bharat Electronics has developed the Prithvi air defense system, scheduled for deployment in 2015. .
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Also ISRO has own civilian AESA space surveillance radar (MTOR) which can track a 30cm by 30cm objects at > 800 km

This is a Ground based Radar system.
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1640100143560.png
1640100205590.png
Elaborating on the features of the radar, S.V.Subba Rao said the phased array radar antenna is stationary while its beam generated by 4,608 radiating elements can be steered. He said the radar weighing 35 ton, 12 metre long and 8 metre tall rectangular could be turned in different directions and will be used to meet the range safety purposes during a rocket launch here.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
SMART missile is one thing to note ( I like the idea, sticking a lightweight torpedo to a solid rocket).
Did you like this one? haha ha

I'm just kidding. The SMART is just an anti-submarine missile with very long range compared to existing systems, and can be compared to the UUM-125 Sea Lance which would have a range of 185 km, even equipped with conventional warheads. SMART has a range over 600 km. If China's underwater observation network does have a network of sensors capable of tracking any moving object in the First Island Chain, a long-range anti-submarine missile is expected, which could be launched from both terrestrial and underwater platforms.
 

zxy_bc

Junior Member
Registered Member
You spelled out Indian Wishlist. The country has no comprehensive capability ( no solid electronics manufacturing base) that every other product is a product of foreign JV or LIcense production. Radars are almost always Israeli supported.

Brahmos 1000 km doesn't exist. India is engaged in Reverse engineering the Russian systems for the 300 km range Brahmos. It may be a goal but that's it. Brahmos 2 is to be a Russian Tsirkon export variant. India would try to do some "indianification" similar to what it does to Brahmos.

An SLBM becomes a "Hypersonic Ballistic cum Cruise missile ?" What kind of wordplay wizardry is that ? Only Jai Hinders will spurt something like that. A ballistic missile going in depressed trajectory would've sufficed.

India still struggles to field a subsonic cruise missile (
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). It's plagued by failures. India can't get a proper MALE/HALE drone to work ( Rustom ?).

Evidently, India's strength is in Ballistics / rocketry. But so is Iran or NK. SMART missile is one thing to note ( I like the idea, sticking a lightweight torpedo to a solid rocket).

The last image you linked is merely a Canister launch system and was used for the Agni Prime missile.
I am honestly a little baffled on why the Indian need to have ASBM. Like the reason countries develop ASBM are primarily all to deter US carriers, which are numerous in number and great threat to these countries’ coastline or maritime commerce. India does not seem to have that problem, unless ofc they are considering to target the US 5th fleet carriers. (The chance of PLAN carrier entering the Indian Ocean to conduct Ops are dramatically lower than the US 5th fleet carousers conducting Ops in the Indian Ocean)
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Did you like this one? haha ha

I'm just kidding. The SMART is just an anti-submarine missile with very long range compared to existing systems, and can be compared to the UUM-125 Sea Lance which would have a range of 185 km, even equipped with conventional warheads. SMART has a range over 600 km. If China's underwater observation network does have a network of sensors capable of tracking any moving object in the First Island Chain, a long-range anti-submarine missile is expected, which could be launched from both terrestrial and underwater platforms.
Yes, i like it because the range is not heard of. It is something doable by any good missile power but I think that missile is there to cover for India's lack of anti submarine warfare capabilities.

So, the P8I Poseidon that India operates may sniff out a submarine and the SMART missile may be launched from either Indian coast or Andaman Nicobar to that area. I think it's a good idea. But I really don't think China has any intention of attacking India in the Indian Ocean ( that's where India is made to perceive a threat but China is pulling a ruse ). China effectively can't secure any flow of goods in Indian Ocean other than by means of General damage to world shipping ( a case of "If I can't trade then no one will trade" ).
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I am honestly a little baffled on why the Indian need to have ASBM. Like the reason countries develop ASBM are primarily all to deter US carriers, which are numerous in number and great threat to these countries’ coastline or maritime commerce. India does not seem to have that problem, unless ofc they are considering to target the US 5th fleet carriers. (The chance of PLAN carrier entering the Indian Ocean to conduct Ops are dramatically lower than the US 5th fleet carousers conducting Ops in the Indian Ocean)
Because India thinks China will attack India in the Indian Ocean. And China doesn't try to convince India otherwise. Maybe India is using it as an excuse to develop its own capabilities to deter US (in the future) ? Because US fifth fleet is the only ever-present threat to India.

In the immediate term though, it will only force India to throw money at systems that have little value against a China confrontation in Ladakh/ Tibet.
 

zxy_bc

Junior Member
Registered Member
Because India thinks China will attack India in the Indian Ocean. And China doesn't try to convince India otherwise. Maybe India is using it as an excuse to develop its own capabilities to deter US (in the future) ? Because US fifth fleet is the only ever-present threat to India.
That’s what I am thinking as well. Because the last time 5th fleet interfered with India in the Indian Ocean was to protect Pakistan from being destroyed by the Indian Navy. It was the moment that the Indian Navy realize that the Indian Ocean is not ran by Indians, but the US 5th Fleet.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
So, the P8I Poseidon that India operates may sniff out a submarine and the SMART missile may be launched from either Indian coast or Andaman Nicobar to that area. I think it's a good idea. But I really don't think China has any intention of attacking India in the Indian Ocean ( that's where India is made to perceive a threat but China is pulling a ruse ). China effectively can't secure any flow of goods in Indian Ocean other than by means of General damage to world shipping ( a case of "If I can't trade then no one will trade" ).
I also don't think it makes sense for Indians to be considering that PLAN is preparing to build a network of naval bases in the Indian Ocean and have a permanent presence in maritime territory close to India, but that is what they are really considering.

For example, the development of the port of Hambantota, which it now leases for a 99-year term for $1.2 billion as a debt swap for the Chinese loan, although voices in Sri Lanka contest this, claiming the lease it was made to generate money to service its foreign debt, not the repayment of the Chinese loan. However, whatever the specs, the fact is that Hambantota, located on Sri Lanka's south coast, will have substantial Chinese control. In fact, Sri Lanka even moved its naval base from Hambantota to Galle. This has an effective repercussion in the Indian strategic plans considering that the PLAN is advancing towards the Indian Ocean.

Control of the port of Hambantota gives China an advantageous position in the eastern Indian Ocean to face the Malacca Dilemma. Passing the bill, which will soon become law, will give China an additional 269 hectares of reclaimed coastal area off the southwestern port of Colombo, with little oversight by the Sri Lankan government and will allow it to take control total to the extent that it can even regulate the circulation of people and since the use of any currency will be allowed, the Yuan will be a certainty.

Sri Lanka occupies a strategic position in the Indo-Pacific. Its southern tip extends along some of the most critical sea lanes in the world, over which most trade and almost all energy passes to the nations east of the Strait of Malacca, namely China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and many others.

Therefore, it is essential to ensure that the safety and security of these maritime routes and the ships that transit them are not compromised. China is heavily dependent on oil from the Persian Gulf - 80% of its oil imports come from there and pass through the Straits of Malacca, one of the most strategically important geopolitical bottlenecks in the world. Before entering the Straits of Malacca, this traffic passes through the traffic separation scheme off Dondra Head, which is located only about 10 nautical miles south of Hambantota.

Control of this port is therefore a strategic asset for China in mitigating its trade and energy vulnerability in what is known as its Malacca Dilemma. A strong PLA Navy presence in this region will not only secure its own trade, but will also allow it to disrupt, delay or destroy trade and energy flows to its adversaries. China's Malacca Dilemma is its apprehension that India will be able to block Western approaches to the Straits of Malacca as they are in close proximity to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the US and its allies in the Pacific being able to block the eastern approaches, thus crippling the movement of its merchant, as well as naval navigation.

From an Indian perspective, this is not good news. India was very uncomfortable with the previous Rajapaksa regime and its proximity to China. India's goal is to include Sri Lanka in India's SAGAR (Security and Growth for All in the Region) Doctrine, promoting inclusive and cooperative capacity building to protect the greater Indian Ocean region from traditional, non-traditional, transnational and subconventional security challenges that abound in this region. There are plans to integrate Sri Lanka into the Coastal Security Network and the Sri Lankan Navy also operates offshore patrol vessels built in India.

PLAN's permanent presence in the Indian Ocean is a source of concern for the Indian Navy, which has been signaled by successive Chiefs of the Indian Navy. The lease of Hambantota and the Port City project makes it almost certain that the PLA will soon have a presence in these waters that could include the settlement of ships and submarines, as well as a holding post to sustain a longer deployment in the Indian Ocean. PLAN's presence in the eastern Indian Ocean will certainly inhibit the Indian Navy's deployment options and neutralize the geographic advantage it enjoys in those waters. China has been expanding its presence in the Indian Ocean and regularly deploying research ships (spy ships) to collect intelligence and hydrographic data. The availability of a base would allow for a more sustained presence.

Perhaps an even greater concern for the Indian Navy is that Hambantota and Colombo are less than 300 miles from the Indian mainland, about 400 miles from Chennai, and less than an hour's flight. Therefore, India will have to adapt to the presence of its main adversary practically in its backyard and shape its preparedness and response accordingly.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I also don't think it makes sense for Indians to be considering that PLAN is preparing to build a network of naval bases in the Indian Ocean and have a permanent presence in maritime territory close to India, but that is what they are really considering.

For example, the development of the port of Hambantota, which it now leases for a 99-year term for $1.2 billion as a debt swap for the Chinese loan, although voices in Sri Lanka contest this, claiming the lease it was made to generate money to service its foreign debt, not the repayment of the Chinese loan. However, whatever the specs, the fact is that Hambantota, located on Sri Lanka's south coast, will have substantial Chinese control. In fact, Sri Lanka even moved its naval base from Hambantota to Galle. This has an effective repercussion in the Indian strategic plans considering that the PLAN is advancing towards the Indian Ocean.

Control of the port of Hambantota gives China an advantageous position in the eastern Indian Ocean to face the Malacca Dilemma. Passing the bill, which will soon become law, will give China an additional 269 hectares of reclaimed coastal area off the southwestern port of Colombo, with little oversight by the Sri Lankan government and will allow it to take control total to the extent that it can even regulate the circulation of people and since the use of any currency will be allowed, the Yuan will be a certainty.

Sri Lanka occupies a strategic position in the Indo-Pacific. Its southern tip extends along some of the most critical sea lanes in the world, over which most trade and almost all energy passes to the nations east of the Strait of Malacca, namely China, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and many others.

Therefore, it is essential to ensure that the safety and security of these maritime routes and the ships that transit them are not compromised. China is heavily dependent on oil from the Persian Gulf - 80% of its oil imports come from there and pass through the Straits of Malacca, one of the most strategically important geopolitical bottlenecks in the world. Before entering the Straits of Malacca, this traffic passes through the traffic separation scheme off Dondra Head, which is located only about 10 nautical miles south of Hambantota.

Control of this port is therefore a strategic asset for China in mitigating its trade and energy vulnerability in what is known as its Malacca Dilemma. A strong PLA Navy presence in this region will not only secure its own trade, but will also allow it to disrupt, delay or destroy trade and energy flows to its adversaries. China's Malacca Dilemma is its apprehension that India will be able to block Western approaches to the Straits of Malacca as they are in close proximity to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the US and its allies in the Pacific being able to block the eastern approaches, thus crippling the movement of its merchant, as well as naval navigation.

From an Indian perspective, this is not good news. India was very uncomfortable with the previous Rajapaksa regime and its proximity to China. India's goal is to include Sri Lanka in India's SAGAR (Security and Growth for All in the Region) Doctrine, promoting inclusive and cooperative capacity building to protect the greater Indian Ocean region from traditional, non-traditional, transnational and subconventional security challenges that abound in this region. There are plans to integrate Sri Lanka into the Coastal Security Network and the Sri Lankan Navy also operates offshore patrol vessels built in India.

PLAN's permanent presence in the Indian Ocean is a source of concern for the Indian Navy, which has been signaled by successive Chiefs of the Indian Navy. The lease of Hambantota and the Port City project makes it almost certain that the PLA will soon have a presence in these waters that could include the settlement of ships and submarines, as well as a holding post to sustain a longer deployment in the Indian Ocean. PLAN's presence in the eastern Indian Ocean will certainly inhibit the Indian Navy's deployment options and neutralize the geographic advantage it enjoys in those waters. China has been expanding its presence in the Indian Ocean and regularly deploying research ships (spy ships) to collect intelligence and hydrographic data. The availability of a base would allow for a more sustained presence.

Perhaps an even greater concern for the Indian Navy is that Hambantota and Colombo are less than 300 miles from the Indian mainland, about 400 miles from Chennai, and less than an hour's flight. Therefore, India will have to adapt to the presence of its main adversary practically in its backyard and shape its preparedness and response accordingly.
No. You are ignoring the presence of US fleets. India doesn't need to Block Malacca as US will try to do it. And India has enough leverage over Sri Lanka to stop from militarizing the ports.

Also, China doesn't need to place systems in Sri Lanka to monitor India IF recent events are to be taken in a broad sense, where China and Pakistan is accused of penetrating Indian Defense Complex and engaging in espionage/ leaks of important systems like Scorpene, Brahmos etc . What extra/ meaningful gain in awareness would China get by placing some assets in Sri Lanka? Lets build a hypothetical situation where China is placing big Radars, SAMs or Submarine listening posts in Sri Lanka. Would they be secure and reliable? Would it offer the impact that China wants? Would India feel cornered? What will be the impact on Sri Lanka?

I don't think we need to go off a tangent and believe that China is going to dominate India in Indian Ocean. It is impossible to be frank and I don't see much benefit for China. There is however one thing that makes sense. India believes China must be not allowed to create a perception in other countries around, of being the local Big Brother.
 

Suetham

Senior Member
Registered Member
No. You are ignoring the presence of US fleets. India doesn't need to Block Malacca as US will try to do it. And India has enough leverage over Sri Lanka to stop from militarizing the ports.

Also, China doesn't need to place systems in Sri Lanka to monitor India IF recent events are to be taken in a broad sense, where China and Pakistan is accused of penetrating Indian Defense Complex and engaging in espionage/ leaks of important systems like Scorpene, Brahmos etc . What extra/ meaningful gain in awareness would China get by placing some assets in Sri Lanka? Lets build a hypothetical situation where China is placing big Radars, SAMs or Submarine listening posts in Sri Lanka. Would they be secure and reliable? Would it offer the impact that China wants? Would India feel cornered? What will be the impact on Sri Lanka?

I don't think we need to go off a tangent and believe that China is going to dominate India in Indian Ocean. It is impossible to be frank and I don't see much benefit for China. There is however one thing that makes sense. India believes China must be not allowed to create a perception in other countries around, of being the local Big Brother.
I agree with the Indians' misconceptions, but they really may not interpret it that way. Certainly Indians don't trust Americans, this is more than enough proof that India doesn't feel safe with the US Navy snooping around the Indian Ocean and close to Indian outskirts, that same year, the US got in trouble with the Indians because of an alleged dispute over territory, that is, the Americans are targeted in the Indian strategy, but from what I see, the Indians continue to have as their direction the opinion that China represents the greatest threat in the medium and long term .
 
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