Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
If the machine gun is intended to target drones, it cannot be manually operated. AI has been integrated into the tank, and the most natural use of AI would be to target swarm drones approaching the tank. It is impossible for a human to shoot each drone with a machine gun, but an AI-operated machine gun can easily accomplish this.
This post seems to just explain why it would be desirable to have AI-operated machine guns aboard a tank.
You don't explain (a) if this "AI-operated machine gun" is simply an idea that is floating around or is a functional product that has already been prototyped and tested and (b) why the current placement of the machine gun on the turret seems to be focused on manual operation via hatch access rather than any sort of AI control.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
You don't explain (a) if this "AI-operated machine gun" is simply an idea that is floating around or is a functional product that has already been prototyped and tested and (b) why the current placement of the machine gun on the turret seems to be focused on manual operation via hatch access rather than any sort of AI control.
The hurdle to automatic/computer controlled weaponry is not going to be technology, behind all the buzzwords and hype, it's just a fancy image recognition algorithm that picks out people and activate a switch.

Chinese surveillance algorithms are good enough to differentiate and profile people by gait alone, so there's no serious technical hurdle in making a automated gun that shoots to kill. I highly doubt India would actually pursue an RWS on this light tank though, seems like a needless expense when the 25t limit means the armour will be paper mache, better off just buying more cheaper tanks.
 

valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
The hurdle to automatic/computer controlled weaponry is not going to be technology, behind all the buzzwords and hype, it's just a fancy image recognition algorithm that picks out people and activate a switch.
I understand that computer vision is at a pretty advanced state, and it an "AI-operated machine gun" is quite achievable.
Nonetheless, actually building a hardware-software prototype is necessary, before actually deploying however many hundreds of these devices the IA wants to deploy. As of now, there's no indication that any of this prototyping has occurred.
In addition, you would be quite surprised at how much trouble such systems can be to construct and deploy. A robust and reliable camera system, a reliable image recognition system that can function without human input (a tall order, especially given the impossibility of verification of AI systems), and precise servos that can rotate the machine gun the necessary degrees--if not minutes--while simultaneously firing. And remember, this thing is meant to take out drones. This means there will be likely two axes of rotation at once, all while firing.
In all, I have some reservations regarding the ability of the Indian software and industrial complexes to deliver such a product in a timely and complete manner.
 
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pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
I understand that computer vision is at a pretty advanced state, and it an "AI-operated machine gun" is quite achievable.
Nonetheless, actually building a hardware-software prototype is necessary, before actually deploying however many hundreds of these devices the IA wants to deploy. As of now, there's no indication that any of this prototyping has occurred.
In addition, you would be quite surprised at how much trouble such systems can be to construct and deploy. A robust and reliable camera system, a reliable image recognition system that can function without human input (a tall order, especially given the impossibility of verification of AI systems), and precise servos that can rotate the machine gun the necessary degrees--if not minutes--while simultaneously firing. And remember, this thing is meant to take out drones. This means there will be likely two axes of rotation at once, all while firing.
In all, I have some reservations regarding the ability of the Indian software and industrial complexes to deliver such a product in a timely and complete manner.
That and making sure you dont accidentally shoot your own troops.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Indian military situation on the ground isn't exactly looking too pretty especially with respect to the scheme that was applied in haste that allegedly shook the military and caught them by surprise, per the statement on the upcoming autobiographical book from its former Army Chief.

The Indian government with its understandable and even laudable desire and ambition to be seen as regional power in its own right made a lot of strategic moves in order to quickly achieve its goal within its political dynamics at play in order to gain, maintain, and expand its power thereby control in India. Unfortunately, in doing so it forego the very important element that's a must for any aspiring country that wants to be seen as a real credible regional power and that's an actual economic strength backed by real tangible Economic industrial strength and not on FINANCIAL paper money i.e. stock exchange where the value can go from the very top to the bottom the next day as happened to Ambani stocks.



feature=shared

Mearsheimer on India vs China

 

valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have gone through a lot of this threads previous posting, and I have some comments on the general state of who I think are Indians and their understanding of the Indian Army's position.
It feels that they are too quick to praise, and too quick to deflect and blame. Every attempt at a new vehicle or technology, it seems that they look up to the highest peak of human technology and try to immediately replicate. They reach for what is so high but forget that they stand too low to reach. There has never been an instance in human history of such leaps of technology that the Indian military tries to achieve regularly. And so, it is doomed to fail each time.
It is easy to say that this technology and that device can be combined to produce, say, an AI-operated machine gun. But as I and others here point out, the road to a true fusion of these two fairly straightforward technologies is a hard one. It feels that Indian Army procurement strategy relies upon a pale mimicry of the state-of-the-art technology of other nations, that their pundits and what this forum calls "Jai Hind"s immediately seize upon as the greatest in the world.
How can it not be the greatest in the world, when it is being modelled off of the best platforms in the world, and has improvements grounded in observation of those platforms? But just as it is easy to talk theory of quantum particles or perhaps vaguely gesture about differential equations, while being unable to actually do anything useful with this theory, it is just as easy to talk of such wonderful platforms with such wonderful technologies and be completely unable to deliver.
Time and time again in this thread, this has happened. Some wonderful new melding of cutting-edge technology has been announced as an Indian Army procurement goal, only for the project to fall flat on its face when it becomes clear that describing the cutting-edge technology and building it are two rather different things.
But, each time, the "Jai Hind"s do not learn. They do not realize that this leap is something too great to make, that it is in complete defiance of the way of technological progress, and so they deflect, and they blame. It is true that the Indian Army suffers from a good deal of internal dysfunction that hinders the progress of domestic projects. But even this dysfunction, no matter how great, could not possibly explain all of these failures. But it is easier to blame the failures of a bureaucracy, or perhaps the crafty wiles of a foreign nation eager to keep India down, than it is to acknowledge that the goal is too lofty to achieve in one step.
I am not sure if this state of self-delusion can ever end, or if it is too late to fix, because India every year falls another technological increment behind. Every year they will try to make a jump even larger than the previous, and every year they will fall flat on their face. To fix this, India must acknowledge in its military procurement strategy that a suitable domestic supply of weapons will only arise from a strong foundation of knowledge and experience, not amateurish attempts to leap directly to the state-of-the-art.

I really hope that future "Jai Hind"s who come to this thread can realize this, and instead of flooding this thread with useless word-vomit describing what wonderful technologies India would like to build into its weapons, instead think of what India can actually build into its weapons to slowly improve its foundations of research and manufacture.
 

AZaz09dude

Junior Member
Registered Member
I will also say, that turret looks like it has no armor at all. And given the placements of everything, there's no options to mount add-ons like ERA/composites. I guess the 25 ton weight makes sense in light of that.
All round STANAG 2 (7.62x39mm BZ API) base protection, STANAG 4 (14.5x114mm AP @ 200m) frontal arc with applique lmao, 25 tons is very believable. Applique has visible gaps in coverage too in true Indian fashion :cool:. Interesting also that they seemingly chose STANAG 4 using PLA border units QJG02 as baseline threat, but use of DGJ02 tungsten carbide SLAP renders it ineffective outside of extended range engagements. Frontal arc should be vulnerable to being penned by 35mm HEDP from QLU131 or QLZ04 as well lol
 

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
I really hope that future "Jai Hind"s who come to this thread can realize this, and instead of flooding this thread with useless word-vomit describing what wonderful technologies India would like to build into its weapons, instead think of what India can actually build into its weapons to slowly improve its foundations of research and manufacture.
Unlikely, even in the even of a major shock they quickly revert to delusion, e.g. Galwan. The few introspective Indians that have a realistic view of the world are drowned out by the 99.9% Jai Hinds, both here, in India and in every country they migrate to.

Their entire belief system can be accurately described by the following phrase:

Step 1: Build and use toilets Become Supapowa
 
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