Indian Economics thread.

[Chandragupt]

It is just typical Indian superpower nonsense of trying to jump straight into the leading edge without bothering to learn all the steps necessary to get there in the first place. It fails more often than not.
I also think India is kind of reticent into getting into fabrication in a big way since it would make them more vulnerable to trade sanctions and the like. For all the supposed democracy of India, they run a pretty closed economy, and do it for rather obvious geopolitical reasons. India lacks all sorts of strategic materials in its own subcontinent and energy is a big issue. So making lots of industry with poor energy resources is basically impossible. But it is also thanks to that they are less vulnerable to pressure from the West right now.

For India to develop properly they need to solve their energy problem. They focused on nuclear, but they lack uranium resources themselves, thankfully for them they have good relations with Russia which is probably the world leader in nuclear fuel production. I think they should also have a fast reactor project, like China is doing, but their civilian nuclear sector still looks to be way behind. If necessary they can even license the technology for fast reactors from Russia. This would minimize their uranium requirement. As for oil & gas Iran is a natural partner for India. But the thing is to build pipelines they would have to go through Pakistan. Pakistan's sponsors in the Gulf and handlers in the US never allow those pipelines to be built although it is in the strategic interest of all three countries (Iran, Pakistan, and India).

India is investing in ethanol , Hydrogen and Electric Vehicles
100% of the railway tracks in India are electrified and they’re also trying to develop thorium based nuclear reactors because they have worlds largest thorium reserves
I don’t think India will remain dependent on oil imports

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

India is investing in ethanol , Hydrogen and Electric Vehicles
100% of the railway tracks in India are electrified and they’re also trying to develop thorium based nuclear reactors because they have worlds largest thorium reserves
I don’t think India will remain dependent on oil imports

100% of the railway tracks in India are electrified

Wrong!! Indian Railways has achieved electrification of 52,247 Route Kilometers (RKM) out of 65,414 RKM. In a significant step towards its plan to completely electrify the broad gauge network by 2023-24, Indian Railways (IR) have achieved electrification of 52,247 Route Kilometers (RKM) out of 65,414 RKM.

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[Chish]

What the guy described about China during 2006-08 was largely correct, when the "Shanzhai" phenomenon was at its peak and the term "shanzhai" was being thrown around with abandon. Meanwhile India was hailed as being more innovative with such innovation with Indian characteristics as the $2,500 Tata Nano car, as well as pioneering the white-collar revolution aks software and business processing outsourcing. At the time, a lot of Chinese companies and government agencies sent delegations to India to learn from the success of NASSCOM.
China has since moved on, developing one of the two most dynamic and comprehensive digital ecosystems in the world, and becoming the factory of the world manufacturing everything including most hi-tech products in the world. India, meanwhile, appears to have stuck in the lower-income trap.

It'll be interesting for someone to research and investigate the divergence and uncovering the driving factors behind it. It'll be a great read for many people, from politicians, economists, investors to businessmen. Maybe

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can write such a piece?

They don't understand or wouldn't accept China's copying and reverse engineering at that time was to quickly learn and to acquire the technology. The cultural revolution and closed door policy set China technology and everything else backward for generations. India at that time was actually more advanced and developed. The Chinese strategy then switched to joint ventures and tech transfer. The Chinese strategy was so successful that the West started to sanction China.
Meanwhile India since independence was .........." advancing " through their own innovations, help from the West and Soviet/Russia, buy any technology they wanted, sent students to the most advanced institutions, and no sanctions. They still have the best of situations today. The Chinese would envy them.

 

[sdkan]

It is just typical Indian superpower nonsense of trying to jump straight into the leading edge without bothering to learn all the steps necessary to get there in the first place. It fails more often than not.
I also think India is kind of reticent into getting into fabrication in a big way since it would make them more vulnerable to trade sanctions and the like. For all the supposed democracy of India, they run a pretty closed economy, and do it for rather obvious geopolitical reasons. India lacks all sorts of strategic materials in its own subcontinent and energy is a big issue. So making lots of industry with poor energy resources is basically impossible. But it is also thanks to that they are less vulnerable to pressure from the West right now.

For India to develop properly they need to solve their energy problem. They focused on nuclear, but they lack uranium resources themselves, thankfully for them they have good relations with Russia which is probably the world leader in nuclear fuel production. I think they should also have a fast reactor project, like China is doing, but their civilian nuclear sector still looks to be way behind. If necessary they can even license the technology for fast reactors from Russia. This would minimize their uranium requirement. As for oil & gas Iran is a natural partner for India. But the thing is to build pipelines they would have to go through Pakistan. Pakistan's sponsors in the Gulf and handlers in the US never allow those pipelines to be built although it is in the strategic interest of all three countries (Iran, Pakistan, and India).

I don't think a country's economic development has much to do with energy.



Asia's most developed countries are not energy-rich regions

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

I don't think a country's economic development has much to do with energy.



Asia's most developed countries are not energy-rich regions

History and reality squashes your assertion. The U.S. is an energy exporting country and is benefitting from their machinations in Europe through Ukraine vs Russia. Russia itself stayed as an important player because of energy. Europe through it's prior connection with Russian energy and their own domestic use of coal, nuclear, and other sources of energy not to mention through the output from their previous colonial outposts the continental powers powered their economic rise.

 

[gelgoog]

You need energy. Either your own or enough imported supplies. If you import, you need to have enough exports to pay for the imports.
India is so massive the issue of how to get energy is much larger than it would be in smaller nations.

I still remember in the 1980s people claiming India did not need to go through the same development as other countries. They could just use solar, and they did not need expensive land based telecoms networks, they could just use satellites. BS. Never happened. Now the West is trying to convince India to use wind. It is the same usual tricks. You can't power a huge modern economy on renewables alone.
The best renewable power source for India would actually be hydropower. But for cultural reasons the government was never able to exploit it properly.

 

[AndrewS]

I don't think a country's economic development has much to do with energy.



Asia's most developed countries are not energy-rich regions

Agreed

If you look at the East Asian Economic Tigers (Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan previously) - their natural resource endowments are essentially zero.

It's all about the people and providing an environment for them to build.

 

[sdkan]

History and reality squashes your assertion. The U.S. is an energy exporting country and is benefitting from their machinations in Europe through Ukraine vs Russia. Russia itself stayed as an important player because of energy. Europe through it's prior connection with Russian energy and their own domestic use of coal, nuclear, and other sources of energy not to mention through the output from their previous colonial outposts the continental powers powered their economic rise.

I don't know if these two countries are positive examples.



I think both countries are huge countries, which is more important than energy.



So China and India are all such countries and have the conditions to become great powers. It has very little to do with energy.

 

[xypher]

View attachment 87972

Dave Rajesh.

 

[AndrewS]

You need energy. Either your own or enough imported supplies. If you import, you need to have enough exports to pay for the imports.
India is so massive the issue of how to get energy is much larger than it would be in smaller nations.

On a side note, remember that China's goal is to become the first electro-state where everything is powered by electricity.
Currently, they continuously import oil, gas and coal to burn into energy.

But that will stop if society is powered by capital items that produce or store electricity eg. solar panels, wind turbines, hydro, geothermal, nuclear, grid batteries, car batteries.

This everyone knows this is the future direction of energy for every country in the world.