India Oxygen Equipment Donation

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lgnxz

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My hypothesis on why the current government is trying to extend their hand to a literal hostile country is probably for an international image overall of china being the only vaccine manufacturing country (and manufacturing in general) that can function normally in trading goods with no strings attached in doing business, a complete antithesis and specifically targeted to the US and the west for their typical sanctions and politically charged behavior regarding global trade. However, deep down the chinese government knows that the indians would reject the offer, and even if they shamelessly accept it the actual help is gonna either very miniscule for them, very beneficial for us, or it doesn't happen at all given various reasons and excuses lol.

Sounds familiar? It should be, because this is the same trick that the americans and the rest of the west always use on how they conduct themselves geopolitically. Always maximizing image and positive exposure while minimaxing the actual measures, and also pretending to care about your adversaries' people by trying to separate the people with their governments. The same old 'we care about the chinese people, but not ccp' tactics that everyone here have gone numb from it, trying to sow discord, division, and delegitimating the current administration. I think we're seeing the same playbook currently being played right now by china. For example if you have a twitter account, check the global times account that talk about these topics, especially its replies. Global times twitter account is notorious for the cesspool of indian trolls flooding their timeline, but on those specific topics you can see there are many indians themselves COUNTERING the other typical hostile indians and thanking china even for merely doing the lip services. Amazing, isn't it?
 
Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
lgnxz said:
My hypothesis on why the current government is trying to extend their hand to a literal hostile country is probably for an international image overall of china being the only vaccine manufacturing country (and manufacturing in general) that can function normally in trading goods with no strings attached in doing business, a complete antithesis and specifically targeted to the US and the west for their typical sanctions and politically charged behavior regarding global trade. However, deep down the chinese government knows that the indians would reject the offer, and even if they shamelessly accept it the actual help is gonna either very miniscule for them, very beneficial for us, or it doesn't happen at all given various reasons and excuses lol.

Sounds familiar? It should be, because this is the same trick that the americans and the rest of the west always use on how they conduct themselves geopolitically. Always maximizing image and positive exposure while minimaxing the actual measures, and also pretending to care about your adversaries' people by trying to separate the people with their governments. The same old 'we care about the chinese people, but not ccp' tactics that everyone here have gone numb from it, trying to sow discord, division, and delegitimating the current administration. I think we're seeing the same playbook currently being played right now by china. For example if you have a twitter account, check the global times account that talk about these topics, especially its replies. Global times twitter account is notorious for the cesspool of indian trolls flooding their timeline, but on those specific topics you can see there are many indians themselves COUNTERING the other typical hostile indians and thanking china even for merely doing the lip services. Amazing, isn't it?
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Yes. Viewed from a particular vantage point, Chinese offer could be seen as a swipe at India and the West for attempting to throw mud at China's effort in Vaccine export and covid relief activities.

Now India can't be propped up as a success story in Vaccine diplomacy.

The actual winner here is Russia. I never expected Sputnik V to gain so much traction. The attack from western press on Sputnik V, initially, had me stamping it doA.
 
Lethe

Lethe

Captain
lgnxz said:
The only correct take in this whole thread. What's going on here, just few months ago people mourn and angry of the PLA soldiers killed by them and now suddenly a complete 180 turn into a thread about how we should be a bleeding-heart liberal for the indians???

Go donate to pakistan, iran (especially iran is also experiencing a similar very high tick on cases, but I guess no special sticky thread for them huh :rolleyes: ), the pandemic isn't over in the other countries either, you know, there are many countries that would greatly appreciate our help AND would actually utilize the help better given the fiasco is caused by the classic and timeless tales of indian's character; their overconfidence coupled with utter incompetence.

One should expect same reciprocity from the indian' side lest the benevolence that you gave become fruitless. Helping indians now are just basically rewarding bad behaviors. How would china's actual allies like pakistan see from the kind of signal the chinese government is doing right now? Same goes for the other adversaries, you basically can treat china however you want without any drawback?

And finally for real please don't sticky this thread, there is no reason why india should be put on such a special pedestal, I suggest the mods to rethink this and if they really want to help with COVID donation and stuffs then just make a thread about donating in general while also maintaining the neutrality, not targeted to any country, especially to a country that's openly hostile to china jeez..
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Beyond the moral arguments for assistance, it is precisely because Chinese relations with India are fractious that it makes perfect sense for China to offer assistance. If, by acting generously in India's hour of need, China can thaw relations with that nation even slightly, this serves China's interests, for -- and this should hardly need to be said -- it does not serve China's interests to be surrounded by nations that fear and despise her, particularly a nation of the size and latent potential of India, The direct effects of offering assistance would assuredly be minimal, the real opportunity is the space such assistance can create for further productive conversations on related matters and with relevant figures.

Deteriorating relations between nations are characterised by a mutually reinforcing spiral of actions, responses, suspicions and allegations. Particularly in democracies but also outside of them, this downward spiral is enhanced by the domestic advantages of politicians and leaders being seeing to "stand strong" against the hated other. Anything that provides the opportunity to interrupt this cycle should be welcomed.
 
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lgnxz

Junior Member
Registered Member
Lethe said:
it does not serve China's interests to be surrounded by nations that fear and despise her, particularly a nation of the size and latent potential of India, The direct effects of offering assistance would assuredly be minimal, the real opportunity is the space such assistance can create for further productive conversations on related matters and with relevant figures.
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China isn't surrounded by such countries, it's actually india that faces that reality after their friends are getting poached slowly but surely by us; actual example already come with bangladesh immediately seeking for chinese vaccines the moment india broke their vaccine deal and announcing that they will stop all of their vaccine exports lol.

A chaotic india that is governed by a populist, westernophile, hindu supremacist served a better example for them than helping them right now. Rewarding bad behaviors, is this concept really too hard for you to comprehend? Therefore, India should hit rock bottom as hard as it can so that they elect less of modi but more of manmohan singh for example.
Lethe said:
Deteriorating relations between nations are characterised by a mutually reinforcing spiral of actions, responses, suspicions and allegations. Particularly in democracies but also outside of them, this downward spiral is enhanced by the domestic advantages of politicians and leaders being seeing to "stand strong" against the hated other. Anything that provides the opportunity to interrupt this cycle should be welcomed.
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Inaction is also action, you can just watch indians fight against each other and putting the blame on the parties that they don't support, while not getting anything done. Democracy is always like this, india is not special in this regard. Your sentences here is also a paradoxical given that you clearly mention how democratic countries like india can never be become a reliable partner when few shakeups in relations can jeopardize everything? Why should china pour the resources then when the risk is high while the reward seems low and unreliable? This also ties to my previous argument about india losing more friends in the region, do you really think if we push india further to be more chauvinist they will be more likeable by their neighbors and not vice versa??
 
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
For centuries French and English were eternal enemies. Then Germany turned up and they both became allies.

That said, the Indian anti-China propaganda machine is still in full swing on twitter. All the fake western accounts posting about Xinjiang, Tibet, BRI in broken English while their countrymen are literally suffocating to death.
 
Xizor

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Abominable said:
For centuries French and English were eternal enemies. Then Germany turned up and they both became allies.

That said, the Indian anti-China propaganda machine is still in full swing on twitter. All the fake western accounts posting about Xinjiang, Tibet, BRI in broken English while their countrymen are literally suffocating to death.
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The more distant from reality the messaging (whether it be in social media or News channels), the better it is for China.

1. Chinese would realize how out of touch is the narrative with the reality.

2. The world never gets to see the actual picture and take actions that truly irritate China.

These social media accounts are serving China at worst, Preaching to the choir at best.
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Member
Lethe said:
Beyond the moral arguments for assistance, it is precisely because Chinese relations with India are fractious that it makes perfect sense for China to offer assistance. If, by acting generously in India's hour of need, China can thaw relations with that nation even slightly, this serves China's interests, for -- and this should hardly need to be said -- it does not serve China's interests to be surrounded by nations that fear and despise her, particularly a nation of the size and latent potential of India, The direct effects of offering assistance would assuredly be minimal, the real opportunity is the space such assistance can create for further productive conversations on related matters and with relevant figures.

Deteriorating relations between nations are characterised by a mutually reinforcing spiral of actions, responses, suspicions and allegations. Particularly in democracies but also outside of them, this downward spiral is enhanced by the domestic advantages of politicians and leaders being seeing to "stand strong" against the hated other. Anything that provides the opportunity to interrupt this cycle should be welcomed.
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yea not sure india will be gracious toward china help though, after reading this thread lol

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Inst

Captain
lgnxz said:
My hypothesis on why the current government is trying to extend their hand to a literal hostile country is probably for an international image overall of china being the only vaccine manufacturing country (and manufacturing in general) that can function normally in trading goods with no strings attached in doing business, a complete antithesis and specifically targeted to the US and the west for their typical sanctions and politically charged behavior regarding global trade. However, deep down the chinese government knows that the indians would reject the offer, and even if they shamelessly accept it the actual help is gonna either very miniscule for them, very beneficial for us, or it doesn't happen at all given various reasons and excuses lol.
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China rarely gives actual aid. In reality, China often charges for aid rendered, so if India accepts Chinese aid, India will end up paying into Chinese pocketbooks.

But it's still very stupid for the Indians to refuse Chinese assistance when people are dying. Moreover, it appears the Indians are stuck paying one way or another; Chinese oxygen equipment is the cheapest on the market and the Indians are importing Chinese oxygen equipment anyways.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Inst said:
TBH, I'll point out that both here and in CDF, this is sort of a test to see what kind of response I'd get. I understand that both CDF and SDF are very nationalistic, and I don't actually have a significant expectation that I'd see much donation from either community. On the other hand, it lets me know what people's true colors are and help me understand Chinese nationalist opinion as well.
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The fact that you don't find it a little bit atrocious that you are using this human suffering as a "test" and outright admitting you were disingenuous in your motivations for why you posted this in the first place, is frankly, appalling.

Your motivations were frankly as clear as day, but you yourself stating it is all I need to lock this thread and unsticky it.


If you or anyone else's motivation was to try and encourage donations to this cause, they would not have written it in the way that you had. They would have written it in a manner which would have acknowledged the political differences and the bad blood in this context, and appealing for any donation as being useful but also understanding that it might be difficult to entertain given recent relations.
One would not have written it as "don't be a dick, help out".

I am locking this thread and un-stickying it.

The only reason there is no penalty for you in this case (given you not only made a thread that is essentially designed to troll the userbase here, as well as using a current ongoing human tragedy as the basis for said trolling) is because I cannot find myself to punish anyone for suggesting a donation for a required cause, no matter how dubious the true ulterior motives one had for it.
 
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