Most likely not. The bow is short already and given the size and type of the ship, there's no way you cannot fit VLS into these ships, not to the bow atleast.
Ideal PLAN missile boat
- Thread starter planeman
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Most likely not. The bow is short already and given the size and type of the ship, there's no way you cannot fit VLS into these ships, not to the bow atleast.
You could carry a couple of 12.7mm/.50 cal machineguns below-deck, and mount them above-deck on as-needed basis. Normally a missile FAC is not intended to be a coast guard gun boat anyway.
Hi Golle,
The Israeli Barak, British Sea Wolf, and French Mistral SAM are all approx. 2 meters long. I think that's short enough for a VLS system on the 022. Here's some pictures to show the size comparison:
Some guy carrying a Sea Wolf SAM:
Barak VLS cels on deck:
In comparison, the Crotale/HQ-7 and USN RAM Missiles are 2.8-2.9 meters long, and would prolly not fit as well in a VLS cel on the 022. Those are prolly better mounted on a turret-mount box launcher.
Another possibility is the Russian lightweight Palma ADGMS system, which weights only 6,900 kg w/ammuniton:
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I think something like an 8-cell Barak SAM might actually be able to fit into 022 if they do some modification, but HQ-7 is a definitely no-no. Not that HQ-7 is that large, but I'm not sure China has the capability of creating compact VLS like the Israelis have.
Hi Tphuang,
I looked at these 2 pics:
That AK-630 gun mount looks to be over 1 meter in height. The 022 doesn't have a lot of underdeck space in the forward section, except for the area near the center. It'd be a very tight fit, but I do think the Barak VLS SAM system can fit in there.
The Indian Military forum claims that IAI/Rafael has offered India partnership on the development of the Barak-2, which is said to have 70km range:
p.s. I found some info that claims the Barak system can intercept 2 targets at same time:
“The exercise was a chance for the RSN to evaluate its BARAK weapons system capability of engaging two targets simultaneously.” BARAK is a vertically-launched sea-to-air missile.
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joshuatree
Captain
Yes, normally, a missile FAC isn't intended to be a gunboat. But if they're trying to streamline PLAN's brown water navy, it would make sense to have a gun. You definitely can store some 12.7mm/.50, maybe they currently do. But in terms of reaction time, it would be much slower. The Palma weapons platform looks interesting. It actually looks to be the right combo for a boat like the 022. Just wonder how well it performs.
Btw, anyone think China may export the 022? Markets in the Mideast or Africa?
Fitting VLS (or anyother weapon system for that matter) into ship isen't done just looking to the height of the ships decks and lenght of the missile and then you are good to go. Weight, and more importantly the placement of the weight is far more important factor. You need to find out just how much you can put weight into different parts of the ship and be sure that the overall balance remains stable. In Type 22 case you must understand that it's rather small hull and the catamaran configuration makes it's weight placement bit trickier than other similar size ships. There is no way that into the short bow of the ship could be fitted anyhting bigger and heavier than the AK-630. Not to mention having something alongside it! It's simply just against the laws of physics.
Fitting VLS to type 22 would only be possiple if you fit them to the rear side of the boat. Only proplem is that there are already those huge missile hangars so there isen't enough room. Also there is already enough weight in the rear so fitting a VLS system most likely will change the boats overall balance once again. Also the missile hangars restricts the VLS to be fitted quite high and then we come to another important factor, topweight...
Type 22 is IMO designed to bear the weight that it's currently have and is not intended to be able to alter the balances or fielding extra weight added afterwards. If the designers of that boat would have balanced the boats so that there would be room for additional weaponsystems being fitted later on, the boat would be much more volumeous aka bigger. Type 22 is what it is, fast and stealhty, but poorly protected against modern threats and has hardly any change to improve without major reconstruction which is not an option with such a small and inexpensive boats.
So if you wish to have a missile boat which can perform in modern naval battlefield, forget the type 22 and move on to bigger displacement hulls.
So if you can't simply add something to a 022, how about let them operate in groups of few/several ships, with one refitted with i.e. HQ-7 for small sized "fleet defence" .
And as I understand it the AK-630 can also be controlled by radar. But, if I remember right it was Gollevainen, said it would be optical only ?
So if that is specific on this vessel only, is it that difficult to add a fire-controll-radar ?
And as I understand it the AK-630 can also be controlled by radar. But, if I remember right it was Gollevainen, said it would be optical only ?
So if that is specific on this vessel only, is it that difficult to add a fire-controll-radar ?
well AK-630 orginnally mented to come with Bass Tilt fire controll radar that also controlls the Ak-176, dual purpose gun onboard Soviet ships...But I think it was left out from the desing as it is (like all soviet systems
) Big, bulky and heavy...to even future evidencing that the Type22 hasent got any topweigth left for anything extra fanboy what-if additions....
But as for the idea of group use, it would mean that the ships would be tied to tigth formational doctrine and would require extensive communication and data link procedures, and I think that would limit their usefullness even future...but In most cases, they would operate in group attacks of the old school's way, so perhaps it wouldnt be that far fetched idea...
) Big, bulky and heavy...to even future evidencing that the Type22 hasent got any topweigth left for anything extra fanboy what-if additions....But as for the idea of group use, it would mean that the ships would be tied to tigth formational doctrine and would require extensive communication and data link procedures, and I think that would limit their usefullness even future...but In most cases, they would operate in group attacks of the old school's way, so perhaps it wouldnt be that far fetched idea...
I'm going to have to agree with Golly. The Type 22 and the general idea of FACs are somewhat useless for the PLAN. They don't contribute much to blue water operations but faced with the likely threat enviroment that PLAN would be facing if it were operating in its own littoral, it is too vunerable.
But the Type 22 would be useful in a Taiwan scenario, because they would be furthering the PLANs advantage in the rate of attrition simply by acting as missle trucks.
But the Type 22 would be useful in a Taiwan scenario, because they would be furthering the PLANs advantage in the rate of attrition simply by acting as missle trucks.