Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

shen said:

You know that's not true. You think someone is pointing a gun at the head of that Hamas child solider in the video I linked? How about this?

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Fact is there are groups willing to exploit the innocence of children for their political gains. They use innocence as a propaganda tool.

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Do you seriously know what you re trying to equivocate?
Child soldiers = junior protesters
Islamic causes = HK protest

shen said:

Where are the adults? Where are the parents in that picture? Why aren't they there to protect their children from triad thugs? Is it because adult faces would ruin the innocence or "purity" as you put it? I call it cynical manipulation. To thrust a 15 years old kid into potentially dangerous street protest. Joshua obviously came from a religious and politically active family. It is good his parents raised him to be "compassionate, caring, principled and loyal", but they obviously didn't raise him to be a critical thinker. Instead his parents allowed Joshua to be exploited as the figurehead of a political movement, before he had a chance to explore other worldviews, before he learned to think for himself. That is a crime and a shame.

btw, the idea that innocent children are somehow "tainted in life" as you put it is a Christian worldview borrowed from ancient Greek philosophers. in the Chines Confucian philosophy, children are not viewed as innocent, they need to educated, disciplined, and gain experience in life before they become well-rounded persons. That's why elders are respected.

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Text book approach is if you failed to make headway on the subject proper you attack the people behind it.

Brumby said:

Do you seriously know what you re trying to equivocate?
Child soldiers = junior protesters
Islamic causes = HK protest



Text book approach is if you failed to make headway on the subject proper you attack the people behind it.

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I'm not equating HK protest with Islamic terrorism at all. But Joshua Wong and other minors are been exploited by the most radical political groups in HK. They are innocent faces used to shout down moderate democratic groups with realistic reform agendas, to charge government offices, to battle police officers. They are evidently the child soldiers of the radical HK protesters. Who are the forces behind these child soldiers, I dont know.

shen said:

I'm not equating HK protest with Islamic terrorism at all. But Joshua Wong and other minors are been exploited by the most radical political groups in HK. They are innocent faces used to shout down moderate democratic groups with realistic reform agendas, to charge government offices, to battle police officers. They are evidently the child soldiers of the radical HK protesters. Who are the forces behind these child soldiers, I dont know.

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You don't know but yet they are. That sounds to me that you are running on empty tank.

Brumby said:

Unfortunately that is defeatist in attitude. The movement was meant for the people that cannot leave. Those who can don't care.

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Thanks guys for being a good sport. I know I've been really emotional about this, but all the reasons because again, I see these students as brothers and sisters, and I can't accept them being pissed on and crushed on like this.

I never held a possible notion they will win, and my heart sank when I realized what HK has become, but my real concerns are them.

Anyways I think I have enough of what had happened. I'm gonna take a break and try not to follow on it anymore, although I know it's still going to be hard because I just can't not care about these students. I will leave it to you guys to have your discussions.

airsuperiority said:

Thanks guys for being a good sport. I know I've been really emotional about this, but all the reasons because again, I see these students as brothers and sisters, and I can't accept them being pissed on and crushed on like this.

I never held a possible notion they will win, and my heart sank when I realized what HK has become, but my real concerns are them.

Anyways I think I have enough of what had happened. I'm gonna take a break and try not to follow on it anymore, although I know it's still going to be hard because I just can't not care about these students. I will leave it to you guys to have your discussions.

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You should take a break and refresh. Take it easy. Don't get burnt out.

SinoSoldier said:

Airsuperiority, do you have access to the locations of the protest; if so, what is the severity/extent of the protest? There are very conflicting photo essays regarding the matter on the Internet, with some stating that it has been exceptionally peaceful and others declaring it as some sort of violent riot.

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It's at Mongkok, Causwaybay, I suppose Wanchai, Admiralty, and Central.

The peaceful pictures are few a few days ago, but since last night anti-OC people showed up at confronted the protestors. What makes things seriously downhill is thugs showed up, started beating students up, some touching female students, while the police are doing minimal. They are mostly standing around barely making arrests, and when they do, most of them are released again and given a taxi. Some protestors would follow those officers and confront their decisions before they get a chance to release the arrestee until some took the arrestee away again, but sure as hell they released the person again. Some protestors get arrested instead of the attackers. The police spokesperson, on the other hand, kept saying that the officers are doing their job properly. There has also been multiple footages, pictures, of vicious attacks.

Again what you decide to believe is up to you, but all I encourage you to do your own research within the next 24 hours because apparently a post stated from Chinese University is telling people to keep every evidence they can because there has already been attempts to remove these things now. Also, I guarantee you if you find your way to access sources(try facebook groups like I love Hong Kong, Solidarity ，香港人Secrets, 我係香港人, you will quickly be bombarded by what's happening immediately guaranteed). Also, ask your HK friends, be open-minded. They will have a lot to say. There's a set of thinking in this forum already that I while is something I disagree, the bigger issue is that the thinking shows no understanding of the chaos happening on the ground.

Brumby said:

You don't know but yet they are. That sounds to me that you are running on empty tank.

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That's the problem. We don't who they are. They stay in the shadow, while using children to fight their battles. Whoever they are, they've indoctrinated Joshua with some pretty radical views. He is the record saying stuff like he is not just fighting for demcracy in HK, but to overthrow the Chinese government, and he is not interested in long term solutions, anyone not interested in immediate victory shouldn't be in this fight at all. Check out some videos of him online. scary stuff.

shen said:

That's the problem. We don't who they are. They stay in the shadow, while using children to fight their battles. Whoever they are, they've indoctrinated Joshua with some pretty radical views. He is the record saying stuff like he is not just fighting for demcracy in HK, but to overthrow the Chinese government, and he is not interested in long term solutions, anyone not interested in immediate victory shouldn't be in this fight at all. Check out some videos of him online. scary stuff.

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Radical ideas can often be socialized into individuals without any sinister deliberate actors in the shadows.

And that is just as, if not more frightening.

This is what happens when you thrust minors into street battles.



On CDF, one poster wrote he doesn't agree with their aims, but he really feels sorry for these kids. That's exactly what the radical protester groups want. Reducing what should be a rational discussion about the long term future of HK into an emotional contest that drowns out all reasonable voices. The real victims are these exploited child soldiers.

shen said:

This is what happens when you thrust minors into street battles.

On CDF, one poster wrote he doesn't agree with their aims, but he really feels sorry for these kids. That's exactly what the radical protester groups want. Reducing what should be a rational discussion about the long term future of HK into an emotional contest that drowns out all reasonable voices. The real victims are these exploited child soldiers.

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The guy at the back that is crying eventually said his father was taken to the hospital due to the attacks. These few kids are holding onto the tent from being ripped apart. I saw the pictures earlier but also decided not to post it because it's pretty much pointless.

Also, all the blame is still undermining their cause as them knowing what they are doing, but no one has made a statement here about the vicious attacks taking place other than legitimizing them.