Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

I stayed out all this crap because I went on vacation to Japan last week...and it's still drags on...

AssassinsMace said:

The melodramatic cliché romanticism coming from these protestors is nauseating. "Can you hear me sing?" Baaaaarrrf! All of it aimed to get the outside world to force China to do what they want. Any Chinese especially these Hong Kongers should know that's when the Chinese are most stubborn. Yeah proof needs to be shown when accusations of foreign interference yet they don't need to show any when accusing Beijing of hiring triad thugs to beat demonstrators and even claiming paying perverts to do their thing?

But I love it that these demonstrations are happening and like I've said, China should do nothing. This is like corporate giant Google's egomaniac Sergei Brin trying to take on China. Remember, beforehand everyone believed that propaganda that China needed them more than they needed China. That event exposed it as a lie. China called their bluff and won. Ever since, foreign corporations have been keen not to irk China. What are these demonstrations doing? I just read how Macau was hit on a National Day week that is normally a boost for them. The US economically benefits more from Hong Kong with a huge trade surplus. Yet no business which these demonstrators are the cause are going to hit more and more on those trade surpluses. And the cherry on top... it's in no part due to any actions by China.

These demonstrators are pulling out everything including the kitchen sink to strike a cord with the West to get them involved.

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Despite Beijing won't want this to drag on, neither they are too worry to muscle in any time soon, for one London and Washington only pay lip service to this circus show, and two the impact on the civilians' lives are setting in - HK people in general would let them play out during the holiday week but by now it's working weeks all the way till Christmas. So the longer those boys and girls drag this nonsense on, the less "Bleeding Heart Liberals" people gets and, more of the cold hard pragmatic HK sentiment will kick in. When this drags on further and more people are looking at unemployment and worse, who'd they blame for holding them as hostage? These people have decent lives before all this, so less likely they'd blame the government.

AssassinsMace said:

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Ferguson? Really? Where's the person that died to spark this demonstration. And this story shows these demonstrators crossed the line trying to equate Ferguson with their cause. Not only has no Hong Konger suffered from Beijing's brutality, the turn around is they're painting the US as brutal as Beijing. You have a group of people who have no sense of limits who will go to the extent of accusing Beijing of hiring perverts to grope women in the crowd. Of course they won't see when they crossed the line equating their demonstration with Ferguson thus painting the US as much a brutal regime as China. Big mistake.

The only thing that's going to save this protest is a crackdown with some deaths. And you know there are people that was counting on that from the beginning.

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It's high time that those morons should know when their actions reduced the normal police presence in Mongkok - which, for the less-informed foreigners, is not exactly a "good neighbourhood" but kept the lid on by police presence - all those undesired elements will all crawled out of shadows to hunt; on top of that, legit business and grey markets run by those triad members are hit badly by this, so would you be surprised they gonna make their voices heard? An analogy would be doing the same thing in the middle of Little Italy, the Mafia won't take long to make blood spill. Those boys and girls really forgot it was the police who keep Mongkok safe, and they should be lucky that the mobsters leave their iron pipes and machetes at home.

Seriously, you can't piss at the police this minute and then cry at them for help the next. For one, I say let those boys and girls have a good taste of what anarchy really like, let them get what they deserves. Only after they get mugged and raped then they'd truly appreciate the police.

Brumby said:

The Individual Visit Scheme is the gateway through which it allows pregnant mothers across to have the baby delivered in HK. It then gives the baby right of abode and the right to schooling in HK even though the mother herself may have no right of abode herself. This loophole is creating a massive dislocation of public services in HK and consequently a major economic issue.

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Well for the hospital, I would have to agree that social resources was being used to support the kids birth, but a lot of them have return to China. Families wanted to have more children or chase for a boy look to HK as a opportunity. Some may free ride, but a lot of them before the cut had to pay a fee. The schooling issue mainly affects the kinder garden in the northern district, but according to news research and government research, the effect was bloated by the media. The main reason there was not enough seats at first was, because parents were applying for 5 or more seats at different school cause major inefficiency. You will be surprised what HK parent will do "especially the wealthier ones" to get a seat in the school they want.

In regarding to airsuperiority on milk powder, after the limit, it has been a lot better. I can easily get milk powder in HK main island. The shortage probably remains in MK or the northern district on the community near the crossing. Again, this was hyped, because everyone was buying a certain brands and did not buy any other ones. Also, some milk powder companies were being investigated for mis-leading the public of the health benefits to the baby if they use their brand. If members of sinodefence can listen in Cantonese, you will found that the claims are ludicrous.

On the video in regarding to the owner "touching" the legs of a person, I can guarantee that people will do a human flesh search on the female that was yelling out stating that "we have taken picture of your misconduct"

Now in a way , the elite may have concerns, since government may start to favor smaller real-estate developer. The Tycoons are sitting on huge patch of land and not develop it. The government have recently enacted regulations similar to "use it or loose it" for a given period. I think their biggest concern though is not democracy, but Chinese investment in HK. HK Tycoon always contract out to other company in acquiring land. The said third party, would always try to get benefits by buy low sell high, which cause a huge delay for acquiring property in a certain area (this include older buildings) I went back to HK this year and a building was acquire in less than 7 month (I was there 7 month ago) and I was informed that it was Chinese investment. They paid a huge sum of money and homeowners are happy (like in the old days). In the past 2 decade, the ministry of housing (I think, but it was a government ministry for sure) was re-zoning an area (more like allowing denser building pack so that a block can be develop simultaneously). It also went into acquiring unit at a low price. It used shady methods, such as acquiring all residential unit first and force the commercial unit to sell at a low price. Here is where the problem is, the forced a corner shop to sell it at less than a million dollar, which is not even enough to re-purchase a store near the location at all. The government would then sell the land to the developers (the Tycoons). The government should be just doing re-zoning and let the market do its work. They currently again wanted to do re-zoning and acquiring land, but I don't think that went far due to recent issues.

Back to social housing, I forgot that there was a minister under fired and caused him to quit his job when he requested the government to buy up patches of land (empty), but was faced with the opposition charging him on conflict of interest. The minister used to own the land, but (I don't quite remember exactly) he sold all he shares of the company to a brother in law (same practice in democratic world) the opposition somehow found out and cause the whole project to be delayed. Technically, the minister did nothing wrong at all. (Opposition have once claim office rental from the government, which the opposition themselves own).

Another thing I don't get is that, whenever CY appoints a minister last year, negative media on the minister pops up, and it was the misconduct that the minister did under British rule. These misconduct was never reported to the government, but somehow, someone have it on hand and only reports it when the minister becomes appointed. I think they really investigate the person who has it and arrest him for withholding information of criminal activity.

On the picture of the pro-democracy and anti-OC This is a classical case like Venezuela, where the media reported people were shooting at a crowd from one angle, but after the coup, it was the opposition that was shooting towards an empty street. I believe this picture did not get many people attention, until recently when people are starting to voice the unhappiness on the OC crowd.

I think the articles posted by ABC78 and AssassinsMace are spot on!

Even though I am new on this forum and haven't opined much on this issues, I have done so on other forums and I have always shared the same views as presented in those articles. As a matter of fact, I think democracy is just a means to an end for these OC radicals; to destroy the economic freedom of HK.

I don't think it comes as a surprise that OC is really just another version of your typical Occupy protest a while back but I think that OC is much more cunning. OC is able to use democracy as a shield to cover their hidden agenda, which is this western left wing socialist, redistributionist policies which is so contradictory to Hong Kong's long standing view of positive non-intervention which started with HK's financial secretary John James Cowperthwaite and upheld by successive financial secretaries.

I could nitpick on a lot of things about this so called "democracy" protest. Common viewpoints from the OC side:

-People should sacrifice some of their wages for the greater good
-Business owners who don't agree with this movement and are concerned about lost business are scumbags
-It's our parents' generations fault, they bought flats when they were a lot less expensive and have their mortgage paid off
-Our parents don't get the big picture, they don't know anything so therefore they are wrong

I don't know if OC sees the irony in their views but gee....it sounds like cultural revolution rhetoric!

Milton Friedman got it right when he said that economic freedom should come before (or is more important than) political freedom and he is right. People will never support for any policy where their economic freedom or prosperity is at risk and I think we are witnessing this right now with the anti-OC protestors in HK. They see that while OC's version of universal sufferage is great but if it's at a cost to their livelihood, it's just not worth it.

ahho said:

On the video in regarding to the owner "touching" the legs of a person, I can guarantee that people will do a human flesh search on the female that was yelling out stating that "we have taken picture of your misconduct"

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My brother told me last night the female has admitted to false accusation in front of lawyer because she wants to discredit anti-OC initially.

AssassinsMace said:

I like how FP has to suggest this anonymous note is from someone who is anti-democratic. It has nothing to do with democracy. This article is on point.

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I quote two comments by "floatingpoint":

After reading this translation I spent some time to read the Chinese version, and, no surprise, I see big "ideological" problems represented by this translation. First of all, this is not a complete translation. The original Chinese version has about 8 pages, and here we are having two, at least three, pages. So, what got omitted by the translation? Arguments. The original version has tons of examples, numbers and reasoning that support the main points. And here we have meager portion of that but "rants." Why FP cannot honestly present points of view that are not commonly heard in Western world? Who can offer an explanation?


I live in Taiwan and I don't get terrified by China. Only those people brainwashed by Western media think that China only means threat but not opportunities. "Opportunities of what?" you may ask. Let me tell you. Opportunities for poor Asian countries to develop, to grow out of the status of economical colonies of big Western "international" companies, to build much-needed infrastructures... For Taiwan, China can also mean huge opportunities in many aspects. Even for China's own people, I would say the prospect of developing a new kind, but still genuine, democracy in the near future (in 20 years) is very promising. You will see. And in the meantime, try not to be brainwashed so easily by Western media.

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The second was in answer to other comments.

delft said:

I quote two comments by "floatingpoint":

The second was in answer to other comments.

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Link to the Chinese version please?

ancestral said:

My brother told me last night the female has admitted to false accusation in front of lawyer because she wants to discredit anti-OC initially.

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she is drama student. really! she is admitting now that other OC people told her to yell sexual harassment to gain sympathy.

and this brave man went to protect a old man that collapsed and got beaten bloody by the OC people. non-violent protest?

[video=youtube;3cvcHDbzWFY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cvcHDbzWFY&index=4&list=UUFW9sFyIFAdMOajOF0ouD9Q[/video]

shen said:

... non-violent protest?

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And guess what, those people still believe that lie...

I'm not kidding that this needed to happen. It's going to be harder for them to organize another in the future since people have seen what resulted naturally. China should do nothing because now when this peters out, it cannot be easily said that China overreacts and violates rights in response. Not sure why these protestors bragged about how there was no vandalism and property destruction. They did the high tech version and it cost $50 billion on the Hang Seng. This is a message to Macau also on what can happen as well.

Now the next best thing that should happen is for these notorious political figure heads to lose all their influence.

AssassinsMace said:

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I'm not kidding that this needed to happen. It's going to be harder for them to organize another in the future since people have seen what resulted naturally. China should do nothing because now when this peters out, it cannot be easily said that China overreacts and violates rights in response. Not sure why these protestors bragged about how there was no vandalism and property destruction. They did the high tech version and it cost $50 billion on the Hang Seng. This is a message to Macau also on what can happen as well.

Now the next best thing that should happen is for these notorious political figure heads to lose all their influence.

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It's better to have the police pull out and let the mobsters do their number on them boys and girls and jokarlists, let them have a first-hand experience of the anarchy (re-branded as democracy and empowerment to the people) they so advocate. A whole night of violence and horror all over the street will finally wake those boys and girls up, that they've been so played for fools by those politicians.

It's called "tough love", people. Or would you like Beijing muscle in to mow people down by machine gun fire instead?

And Hang Seng Index? Y'know that's not really important now, as fund houses and banks alike can foresee how the market would act, and all prepared to hedge the market for massive profit - and by now many already did, since trading now done electronically and trading never stopped throughout all this. Liquid assets is king now, and those fat cats already have bigger portfolios overseas or in the Mainland, whatever the case maybe.