HJ-8 ATGM in Syria

cn_habs

Junior Member
It's pretty much the same story throughout Syria

I guess it's first got to stop the war then let people move back and then restart the building processs

Sounds really bad but sometimes things like this happen and a more progressive and more determined country emerges with a more tolerant society, they should learn the lessons from this war

Without the arms and supplies given my the US, France and the Brits the rebel groups would not have lasted long.

At the end of the day, it's proof that some Western doesn't give a shit about democracy and human rights as long as they can implement Western puppies in strategic regions. Just look at how cozy those hypocrites are with SA and Bahrein. Who on earth still give a rat's ass about the ten of millions starving disease-infected Syrians now?
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Without the arms and supplies given my the US, France and the Brits the rebel groups would not have lasted long.

At the end of the day, it's proof that some Western doesn't give a shit about democracy and human rights as long as they can implement Western puppies in strategic regions. Just look at how cozy those hypocrites are with SA and Bahrein. Who on earth still give a rat's ass about the ten of millions starving disease-infected Syrians now?

Syria was actaully a really nice country, very nice people, survived without aid actaully was a pretty big donor country to the Palestinians and Iraqis and Lebanon too

however Assad did make mistakes at the beginning he should have handeled the situtaion professionally, he didnt and this gave others the chance
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Syria was actaully a really nice country, very nice people, survived without aid actaully was a pretty big donor country to the Palestinians and Iraqis and Lebanon too

however Assad did make mistakes at the beginning he should have handeled the situtaion professionally, he didnt and this gave others the chance

Just what could have Assad done other than hand his own head over on a silver platter to have averted this disaster?

The Assad government actually made massive concessions and agreed to most of the protestors' demands, including cutting the mandatory consription period, announced the release of political prisoniors, cutting taxes, raising government salaries, promised to increase press freedoms and most significantly, he even lifted the states' 50 year old state of emergency. But if anything, that only seemed to encourage and embolden the protestors.

The masses were caught up with revolution fever, whipped up in part by foreign based parties and organisations who promised and provided financial, organisational and eventually military support in the form of arms and training. But perhaps the most important, and devastating thing they provided the opposition was the belief that the west had their back. With that sense of support the opposition thought they could not loose, and so were in no mood to 'settle' and finally forced Assad into a corner.

With what was happening in the region at the time and what happened to other toppled leaders like Gaddaffi and Mubarack, Assad would have to have been a moron to think backing down and stepping would have been a realistic option if he wanted to keep his head attached. Anyone with half a working brain and clear eyes could and should have seen that.

The most important lesson anyone can learn from the Syrian tragedy is that one must never allow yourself to become the pawns of foreign powers against your own government. Any real and meaningful change must come organically from within a country, that applies to peaceful change just as much as it does to revolutions.

If there is not enough support within your own country to allow a revolution or civil war to sweep the encombant regime from power, no amount of foreign weaponry is likely to change that fact, and in such situations, foreign arms will only keep the conflict boiling over for longer, increasing the damage done.

If you look back on history, in the overwhelming majority of cases, armed revolutions have been a terrible idea and rarely goes as intended. In the vast majority of cases, either a general takes over and makes himself a king, or the country is consumed by years or decades of bitter devastating fighting that usually leads to the country breaking up.

All of the revolutions that were most successful and which produced the best results were peaceful ones waged to win over the hearts and minds of the ruling elite. Gandhi, Mandella, Aung San Suu Kyi, they all knew that as soon as you go down the armed rebellion road, even if you win, your country and people looses.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Well I think that you do not know the full timeline of events, Assad put down the initial protest with live fire and bullets that was a big mistake a mistake which the Egyptian military did not make if Egypt used live fire we know what would have happend there, Egypt has good riot control because they use them during the football matches

This incident happend on March 18 2011 in city of Derra at Omari mosque Syrian army opened fire live fire in civilians

Assad used jack boot tactics not welcomed during the time and place, Erdogan then offered Assad riot gear proper riot gear for controlling crowds, Assad refused and kept on using army to brutally suppress the uprisings

Then it became clear that wasn't working and he offered terms which were rejected, rejected because the whole thing had just gone too far

Erodgan then offered to mediate talks and come to some sort of ceasefire then Syrian army opened fire on Turkish border patrols?? I mean the!!

And let's remember Erdogan was the first Turkish prime minister to offer Assad state visit to Turkey, Assad accepted and he was the first Syrian President to visit Turkey in 57 years in 2004, Erdogan was never against Assad they were close and had a understanding

But for some reason Assad just decided to ignore Erdogan and his advice and shot down F4 of TuAF this is unacceptable

So this is why I said Assad made mistakes at the start he should have taken Erdogan as a friend and worked with the international community he didn't and just went mental on his country now which is in ruins

Rebels are even worse, what replaces Assad is going to be 10 times worse than Assad, cus let's be honest Assad was not threat to anyone and he was actually minding his own business
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Well I think that you do not know the full timeline of events, Assad put down the initial protest with live fire and bullets that was a big mistake a mistake which the Egyptian military did not make if Egypt used live fire we know what would have happend there, Egypt has good riot control because they use them during the football matches

This incident happend on March 18 2011 in city of Derra at Omari mosque Syrian army opened fire live fire in civilians

Assad used jack boot tactics not welcomed during the time and place, Erdogan then offered Assad riot gear proper riot gear for controlling crowds, Assad refused and kept on using army to brutally suppress the uprisings

Then it became clear that wasn't working and he offered terms which were rejected, rejected because the whole thing had just gone too far

The Egyption army most certainly wasn't shy about using live ammo when they crushed unarmed civilians protesting their little coup. It wasn't all that long ago, surely you recall?

If anything, the brutality, loss if life and degree of the Egyption suppression of dissent put Assad's efforts to shame, and the Egyption generals offered not one shred of compromise. In a way, Egypt offers a very unique case study in seeing how different tactics to deal with massed populist protests can yield hugely different results.

The initial Egyption response was largely similar to what Assad was doing - relying mainly on non-lethal means to try to disperse crows, and only resorting to live ammo when that fails and even then in very limited cases resulting in some, but no many civilian casualties.

The result was that the small death toll enrages the public, drawing more and more people onto the streets.

In contrast, the generals seemed to have been busy examining their initial failings, because when they went after the Muslim brotherhood, they were shooting first and asking questions later. The death toll was far far higher, and that actually was enough to cow the vast majority of protestors and scare them into staying off the streets. That may be storing up trouble for the future, but at least there was no Syrian style uprising.

I guess if one was to draw an objective lession, it is that when it comes to crushing domestic dissent, too much force is always preferable to too little, and the Assad's biggest failing was his lack of resolve, which his enemies took as weakness.

Generals and their men never defect if the other side clearly hasn't got a chance, and protests do not spread and escalate if the protestors know going onto the streets means there is a very high chance they will end up in a body bag. There are some die hards who won't care, but for the overwhelming majority of people, they only joined in later, after it has been shown that protesting was relatively safe, and after a certain critical mass has been reached whereby people stop thinking as individuals and start taking on a collective will that is infectious and self sustaining. If you ever want to feel such a thing, just go to a major sporting event. You also can look at how easily sporting events can result in riots to see how easily such crowds can be stired into violence.

Had Assad been more brutal and decisive and crushed the early protests with overwhelming force and excessive brutality, there is a very good chance he could have nipped the uprising in the bud. But that is a stretch, because by far the biggest factor in the Syrian protests turning into a full blown civil war was the meddling of foreign powers.

One can easily draw parallels between Egypt and Syria to demonstrate how foreign support can prove decisive in pushing a protest movement into an armed uprising and civil war. Had the Muslim brotherhood had any sort of major foreign power providing it with moral, organisation, financial and even armed support, there is very little doubt in my mind that Egypt would have erupted in bloody civil war like Syria by now.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I know of a Turkish blogger who logs all the movements of the Russian warships through the Turkish straits from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean and last year this is the following transits

39 South bound transits of Russian warships mostly cargo vessals

And 52 North bound vessals

That's total of 91 transits last year in 2013 thats one every four days

It's also been noted they are loaded on the way South bound and unloaded North bound by looking at the waterline

They pass Cyprus and unloads at Latakia, Russia is the number one supplier to Assad without Russia Assad would be gone with no supply

In 2014 so far we have

3 South bound and 2 North bound transits of Russian warships
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
This war will not end in victory for anyone

Both sides the Saudi funded terrorists supported by West and Iranian backed Asad family supported bu Russia will not back down

Losers will be only the Syrian people
 
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