H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

by78 said:

So, you heard from someone somewhere that 草根设计师 said so and so, but you don't have a link for that. This begs two questions:

1. Did you go to 草根设计师's Weibo feed and verify for yourself?
2. Why did you originally present this as something said directly by 草根设计师?

BTW, who is this other forumer who "replayed" what 草根设计师 allegedly said? Where can I find this forumer?

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Unfortunately I cannot find the original "relayed" claim anymore, but I'll bring it up if I do. You are right that I should've probably verified those quotes in the first place.

by78 said:

Nice straw man argument. Could you provide a link to a post of mine in which I denied the existence of Chinese bomber projects, or that I denied fzgfzy was hinting at bomber projects? Back to topic at hand, my original objection was to your claim that "Fzgfzy seems to be saying that there are two JH-XX bomber designs..."

Fzgfzy didn't say or imply that there are TWO JH-XX bomber designs. End of story.

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He absolutely implied there were two bomber designs: one which was photographed in that FC-31 album and another that he hinted was more "beautiful". I believe I've provided links to his claims as well. We don't know if there were two concurrent designs or if one was a natural evolution of the other, but if fzgfzy is indeed credible in his claims, there should be a change from what was photographed in that FC-31 album and what was ultimately displayed in the recent cockpit mockup photos (if the latter is representative of an actual bomber project).

by78 said:

I didn't group you with the likes of 'big shrimps', Huitong, and Heri K. Those fine gentlemen are not fanboys.

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It was never my intention to group myself with these sources. According to you, quoting/paraphrasing these sources makes one a "fanboy", so unless there is an issue with how I'm translating or compiling their claims, the credibility of these rumors isn't within my scope of influence.

by78 said:

Finally, was it so hard? Why couldn't you have provided the links in the first place? Even better, why not take a screenshot of the original text and post it here? PLA watching is hard as it is, why turn it into a

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?

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Fair enough, I'll continue providing direct quotations in Chinese from whoever spouted the rumor.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Fu Qianshao, an aircraft expert from the PLA Air Force, anticipated that the new bomber would be better than the US’s B-21 in flight range and carrying capacity.

He said it will probably have an operational range of at least 12,000 kilometers and a maximum payload of 20 metric tons of bombs and missiles.

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How did this individual get these figures? Or is it another premature extrapolation of the B-2's alleged specifications?

Deino said:

By the way, here's the video and indeed it is interesting, that it starts with the H-6....

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Cool video, even without the "next-gen" bit at the end. The video carries the "AVIC" logo but appears to showcase only products from XAC and COMAC -- JH-7 and C919 but no Flankers, J-8s, J-10s, etc. For those who can read it, does the text provide any explanation for depicting the particular aircraft that it does?

Lethe said:

Cool video, even without the "next-gen" bit at the end. The video carries the "AVIC" logo but appears to showcase only products from XAC and COMAC -- JH-7 and C919 but no Flankers, J-8s, J-10s, etc. For those who can read it, does the text provide any explanation for depicting the particular aircraft that it does?

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Here's my understanding: AVIC is the parent organization which XAC falls under, so while this video seems to be from (or made by) XAC, it would make sense for them to put the AVIC logo as well.

SinoSoldier said:

Unfortunately I cannot find the original "relayed" claim anymore, but I'll bring it up if I do. You are right that I should've probably verified those quotes in the first place.



He absolutely implied there were two bomber designs: one which was photographed in that FC-31 album and another that he hinted was more "beautiful". I believe I've provided links to his claims as well. We don't know if there were two concurrent designs or if one was a natural evolution of the other, but if fzgfzy is indeed credible in his claims, there should be a change from what was photographed in that FC-31 album and what was ultimately displayed in the recent cockpit mockup photos (if the latter is representative of an actual bomber project).

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Again, straw man argument. I have never denied that fzgfzy claims there are two bomber projects. What I object to is your claim that fzgfzy said "there are two JH-XX bomber designs".

How much clearer can I make it for you?

SinoSoldier said:

It was never my intention to group myself with these sources. According to you, quoting/paraphrasing these sources makes one a "fanboy", so unless there is an issue with how I'm translating or compiling their claims, the credibility of these rumors isn't within my scope of influence.

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Again, straw man argument. I have never objected to anyone quoting information from big shrimps. I do, however, object when you 1) quote alleged big shrimps, 2) 'quote' what genuine big shrimps reputedly to have said, and 3) mis-interpret or make claims that go above and beyond what was originally said, and 4) transmitting rumors without furnishing source text or photos.

by78 said:

Again, straw man argument. I have never denied that fzgfzy claims there are two bomber projects. What I object to is your claim that fzgfzy said "there are two JH-XX bomber designs".

How much clearer can I make it for you?

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Please re-read my last two posts & go to the links provided, in which it is evident that he is referring to two JH-XX designs (the original one photographed in the SAC's factory in the background and the more "beautiful" one). If those aren't clear enough for you maybe telepathy is indeed needed.

I wasn't referring to the rumor in which OP mentioned that there were going to be a "platypus" and a "red B-2".

SinoSoldier said:

Please re-read my last two posts & go to the links provided, in which it is evident that he is referring to two JH-XX designs (the original one photographed in the SAC's factory in the background and the more "beautiful" one). If those aren't clear enough for you maybe telepathy is indeed needed.

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No, what I'm telling you, based on reading the same comments as you have, the OP said there are two bomber designs. One is the manta ray, also referred to by the OP as 'more beautiful', as well as 'red B-2', and is a project handled by 'northwest'. This is the long-range, batwing strategic bomber being handled by XAC.

The second bomber is what the OP called 'the platypus', or the not-as-beautiful. This is the SAC stealth bomber, also known as the JH-XX, which is a medium range stealth bomber.

To summarize, there are only two bomber projects; one is the XAC batwing long-range, strategic bomber; the other is the SAC JH-XX medium bomber. One long-range bomber and one medium-range bomber. Two bombers total.

Again, based on the text you provided, the OP does not claim that there is a second JH-XX bomber, which would make it a total of three bomber projects (one long-range plus two medium-range bombers).

What's so hard to understand?

by78 said:

No, what I'm telling you, based on reading the same comments as you have, the OP said there are two bomber designs. One is the manta ray, also referred to by the OP as 'more beautiful', as well as 'red B-2', and is a project handled by 'northwest'. This is the long-range, batwing strategic bomber being handled by XAC.

The second bomber is what the OP called 'the platypus', or the not-as-beautiful. This is the SAC stealth bomber, also known as the JH-XX, which is a medium range stealth bomber.

To summarize, there are only two bomber projects; one is the XAC batwing long-range, strategic bomber; the other is the SAC JH-XX medium bomber. One long-range bomber and one medium-range bomber. Two bombers total.

Again, based on the text you provided, the OP does not claim that there is a second JH-XX bomber, which would make it a total of three bomber projects (one long-range plus two medium-range bombers).

What's so hard to understand?

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Where did you get the idea that the "red B2 / manta ray" and the "more beautiful" bomber are references to the same project? Because OP mentioned "northwest" (XAC) and hence you assumed that they must be the same aircraft?

The conversation, if my memory serves me correctly, went somewhat like this:
1. Person A asked OP if this is the H-1X/"platyplus"/whatever, mentioned previously by OP, with respect to the photograph of the JH-XX cockpit at the SAC compound.
2. OP responded by saying that the aircraft in question is "more beautiful" than the one in the photograph and was from the "northwest".

I've no idea how you managed to conflate that with the "red B-2" that was mentioned in a separate post altogether.

Update: I've looked at what Huitong thinks of it and he seems to believe that the JH-XX/H-X could be developed at XAC ()

Here is the video of the mysterious bomber via unknown