Global Powers Economic and Military influence throughout History

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

I just realized something, if china puts an export tax on all products that export to US, then that will reduce the trade 'imbalance' and allow china to recover some the loss in export to domestic uses.

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

I think what the US is thinking right now is to contain china's rise rather than gaining job back or anything. The govt is able to successfully persuaded its citizen to picture china as the rising "evil communist" that steals jobs and their freedom. They would rather import from othe developing countries rather than continue to strengthen china's position and continue the G-2 relationship. I do not think the US politicians are stupid, therefore I cannot think of other motivation than the one i stated above.

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

My opinion is that it's in the interest of China in the long run to increase the value of the yuan. At the current value of the yuan, Chinese workers have to work so much harder to produce products that are exported at cheap prices after conversion to the local currency of the export country. The U.S. is only complaining now because of her trade deficit seeming to get unmanageable and some uncertainties in its economy. Remember that no country was complaining about her currency getting overvalued by as much as 40% during the 1997 financial crisis. Why would they? These countries suddenly had become 40% richer in a matter of months and, on the whole, still much richer at present.

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

I don't think the US will do any of things they say they will do, like increasing taxes and things. All the complaining is politically driven. I think all the politicians understand the importance of China and Chinese goods in America. If they don't, their advisers will convince them. They are only TALKING about all the punishments because this is an election year and they want to criticize their opponents. Once they get into office, they immediately change their "bad-cop" position and become a "good-cop". Simply look at ALL the US presidents within the past 4 decades. Nixon was perhaps the biggest communist hater you could find. Yet he initiated all the good things with China. Then Bush jr was a HUGE critics of Clinton because his "China-friendly" policies. Yet, Bush became even more friendly to China than Clinton. That's pretty much what most of the American politicians are doing...

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

Tax increases, protectionism persisting in arguing for the yuan be increased or whatever, the rest of the world cannot continually rely on China being the worlds worshop forever. Sure low end manufacturing has gone for goods, but steps should be taken to provide high tech/manufacturing in ones respective home countries no matter what, to provide work for the people who dont have the ability to acquire fancy high paying jobs with degrees in Law, MBAs and whatever else is going.

Should it require taxes and protectionism mayebe the end of the WTO then so be it.After all there are so many supplementary trade agreements between countries that are continually being established.

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

I don't think the key is to "get back the jobs lost to China". If not China, there are plenty other third-world nations that can provide even cheaper labor. It makes no sense for any company to abandon the cheap labor and low cost that these nations offer. And there is no way that developed nations can compete against poor nations in terms of low labor cost. This is actually being shown inside China. Many factories are moving inland because the labor cost on the east coast is getting high. Because the economy on the Chinese east coast is developing nicely, along with it, a higher living standard and higher wages. So factories, in search of cheap labor, is moving westward to the inland areas. So the same trend experienced by developed nations is also happening inside China. So the key should be to invent new jobs that are unique to the developed nations.

This reminds me of the industrial revolution when machines replaced man and people became so angry that they burned the machines in an attempt to keep the jobs lost to the machines. Of course, the worry was that machines would take all the man's job and man would have nothing left to do and would be left unemployed. It turned out we are a creative bunch and managed to come up with so many new jobs that nearly everyone is employed even with the huge population explosion. the same thing can also be said of the age of computers when the same job that used to be done by a whole factory of workers can now be done be a few. You often see a HUGE factory that is almost entirely empty. It certainly makes me wonder where else we could get jobs to keep all these people employed. And again, we see that most people are happily employed.

The "out-source" is yet another attempt by corporations to lower cost and become more competitive. Of course, the easy way would be to "get the jobs back", but is this the wisest option? The most dominant view on economy is to let the market itself decide the course. It looks like that the market has decided that the pure manufacturing belongs to the poor nations with cheap labor. Any attempt to manipulate this trend would be against the spirit of free market and free economy. History tells us the any time man tries to manipulate nature, nothing good comes out of it. Simply look at communism. Any company that tries to go against the trend will lose its competitiveness and eventually go bankcorrupt. Any nation that attempts to turn back the tide by charging taxes and by turning to the protectionism will see itself go idle while the world moves forward. Simply look at China in the Ming dynasty and see how a protectionism destroyed a powerful nation. Yes, within the nation itself, it may not feel a thing for a while, like how Chinese lived comfortably for another 400 years. Yet, the protectionism caused China to fall behind so much that... (well, we know what happened). I believe that, just like previous cases, we should NOT aim to "protect the jobs", which is equivalent to burning the machines back in the day. The focus should be creating new kinds of jobs that are more suitable to the developed nations.

These new jobs would include high-tech, managerial, finance, science.

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

vesicles said:

So the key should be to invent new jobs that are unique to the developed nations.

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China has now becoming the most significant player in Solar Energy/ Panels; which one of the newer industries, . Production in is under threat in Germany and USA from chinese competition.
What comes into play here is the China steamroller syndrome

Any nation that attempts to turn back the tide by charging taxes and by turning to the protectionism will see itself go idle while the world moves forward.

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Not if its decided that the cost benefit of free trade wasnt worth it and by agreement, adopt a trade policy thats a lot fairer all round.

Below is a comment outlining a commonly held percption of China made by a respondent in the "Economist" regarding the same article we are discussing,. (i think)


"Subsidizing their manufacturers (and taking from Chinese consumers) through the RMB peg, cheap loans, property transfers, VAT rebates to exporters, and various hidden measures. Indirect subsidies like lax environmental, quality/safety and labor standards. Disguised ways to selectively help Chinese companies, like extra scrutiny of WFOEs, selective enforcement of labor, tax, censorship, IP and environmental laws, selective enforcement of quality/safety standards, government procurement rules, and state-owned media campaigns against foreign companies. And the elephant in the room, of course, rampant, systematic and state-backed IP theft, which has been the biggest wealth transfer (read theft) in the history of humanity. It's death by a thousand cuts, but don't think the rest of the world doesn't notice what China does."

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Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

bladerunner said:

Not if its decided that the cost benefit of free trade wasnt worth it and by agreement, adopt a trade policy thats a lot fairer all round.

Below is a comment outlining a commonly held percption of China made by a respondent in the "Economist" regarding the same article we are discussing,. (i think)


"Subsidizing their manufacturers (and taking from Chinese consumers) through the RMB peg, cheap loans, property transfers, VAT rebates to exporters, and various hidden measures. Indirect subsidies like lax environmental, quality/safety and labor standards. Disguised ways to selectively help Chinese companies, like extra scrutiny of WFOEs, selective enforcement of labor, tax, censorship, IP and environmental laws, selective enforcement of quality/safety standards, government procurement rules, and state-owned media campaigns against foreign companies. And the elephant in the room, of course, rampant, systematic and state-backed IP theft, which has been the biggest wealth transfer (read theft) in the history of humanity. It's death by a thousand cuts, but don't think the rest of the world doesn't notice what China does."

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Every developing economy does some "unfair" things. Nations like the US used free resources, like lands, taken from the native Americans and literally free labor in slavery. Can you imagine how many people had been killed in the quest of economic development in the US? Possibly millions. I haven't seen that kind of body count in China's economic development between 1990 and now. During industrial revolution, the textile industry in the UK heavily used child labor... Similar things happened in Australia and New Zealand. In the capitalism economic system, the wealth gathering stage is very brutal. So what China is doing is definitely not out there. Where do you think China got these ideas? Chinese are smart, but not THAT smart. They didn't come up with all these ideas all by themselves. They learned it from those developed nations that have gone through the same thing.

I'm in no way saying what China did is correct, but what else can China or any developing nation do to obtain what is needed for its development? It is only human nature for the developed nations to protect what they think is their advantage and maintain their "edge" over the world. As someone trying to catch up, you have no other option...

Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

bladerunner said:

vesicles said:

China has now becoming the most significant player in Solar Energy/ Panels; which one of the newer industries, . Production in is under threat in Germany and USA from chinese competition.
What comes into play here is the China steamroller syndrome



Not if its decided that the cost benefit of free trade wasnt worth it and by agreement, adopt a trade policy thats a lot fairer all round.

Below is a comment outlining a commonly held percption of China made by a respondent in the "Economist" regarding the same article we are discussing,. (i think)


"Subsidizing their manufacturers (and taking from Chinese consumers) through the RMB peg, cheap loans, property transfers, VAT rebates to exporters, and various hidden measures. Indirect subsidies like lax environmental, quality/safety and labor standards. Disguised ways to selectively help Chinese companies, like extra scrutiny of WFOEs, selective enforcement of labor, tax, censorship, IP and environmental laws, selective enforcement of quality/safety standards, government procurement rules, and state-owned media campaigns against foreign companies. And the elephant in the room, of course, rampant, systematic and state-backed IP theft, which has been the biggest wealth transfer (read theft) in the history of humanity. It's death by a thousand cuts, but don't think the rest of the world doesn't notice what China does."

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As if China is the only country that practice subsidy. Well I got news for you US and EU are the worst offender of this crime.They spend lavishly on agriculture subsidy to the tune of 16 billio dollar per year.In so doing denying poor country the mean to export their agriculture product and worst still keep the price of agriculture product in the poor country low exacerbate poverty iand stunted their economy growth
Read this

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The subsidy is not limited to the agriculture only US Subsidized research and development to Boeing and other defense contractor precipitating fight with EU that still not being resolve as to this day.

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Subsidy disputes
In 2004 the EU and the US agreed to discuss a possible revision of the 1992 EU-US Agreement provided that this would cover all forms of subsidies including those used in the US, and in particular the subsidies for the Boeing 787; the first new aircraft to be launched by Boeing for 14 years. October 2004, the US began legal proceedings at the World Trade Organization by requesting WTO consultations on European launch investment to Airbus. The US also unilaterally withdrew from the 1992 EU-US Agreement.[25]

In October 2004, Boeing filed a complaint at the World Trade Organization (WTO), claiming that Airbus had violated a 1992 bilateral accord when it received what Boeing deems as “unfair” subsidies from several European governments. Airbus retaliated by filing another complaint, contesting that Boeing had also violated the accord when it received tax breaks from the U.S. Government. Moreover, the E.U. also complained that the investment subsidies from Japanese airlines violated the accord.

On January 11, 2005, Boeing and Airbus agreed that they would attempt to find a solution to the dispute outside of the WTO.

However, in June 2005, Boeing and the United States government reopened the trade dispute with the WTO, claiming that Airbus had received illegal subsidies from European governments. Airbus has also retaliated against Boeing, reopening the dispute and also accusing Boeing of receiving subsidies from the US government.

Worst still they change the rule of the game by voiding the result of early fair bid in the Tanker competition and deliberately choose Boeing over EAD after strong lobby by Boeing!

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Re: US media claimed: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao critized the US

vesicles said:

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Can you imagine how many people had been killed in the quest of economic development in the US? Possibly millions. I haven't seen that kind of body count in China's economic development between 1990 and now.

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One could come up with a similar if not higher claim by suggesting for eg;1% of the deaths in China are premature due to enviromental degradation

During industrial revolution, the textile industry in the UK heavily used child labor... Similar things happened in Australia and New Zealand. In the capitalism economic system, the wealth gathering stage is very brutal. So what China is doing is definitely not out there. Where do you think China got these ideas? Chinese are smart, but not THAT smart. They didn't come up with all these ideas all by themselves. They learned it from those developed nations that have gone through the same thing.

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Youre right , its very hard to buy into were are allowed to do it because you did it arguement

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