Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.
- Thread starter tidalwave
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One technique for resolution enhancement in lithography is off-axis illumination
left side is the conventional on axis illumination. the light incident on the normal of the mask(reticle) and then diffracted into 3 lights m==1, m=0, m=-1. Only the m=0 light travel to the projection lens. and hitting the wafer, m=1, m=-1 light go out and never hit the projection len.
now here's comes the light , instead of normal to the reticle, or mask. It comes at a slight angle , and the light diffracted again into 3 rays.
and this time, both m=0, m=-1 travel to the projection lens. Therefore it can one extra light ray going through the projection lens, this will enhance the contrast and resolution.
left side is the conventional on axis illumination. the light incident on the normal of the mask(reticle) and then diffracted into 3 lights m==1, m=0, m=-1. Only the m=0 light travel to the projection lens. and hitting the wafer, m=1, m=-1 light go out and never hit the projection len.
now here's comes the light , instead of normal to the reticle, or mask. It comes at a slight angle , and the light diffracted again into 3 rays.
and this time, both m=0, m=-1 travel to the projection lens. Therefore it can one extra light ray going through the projection lens, this will enhance the contrast and resolution.
CHinese government can tell Intel to pack its bag and leave.
And on the way out leave those equipments behind or sell them at discount price.
The recent news Chinese government to ban foreigh tech in state offices and enterprises giving signs that intel is not welcome anymore and probably already in entity list
With semiconductor design, Huawei could rely on ARM and TSMC to support them. And semiconductor design is relatively cheap, because it's an investment of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars and relatively quick to turn around a design.
With semiconductor fabs, the investment can be counted in billions and years. Plus there will only be limited support from SMIC which is struggling to match Intel or TSMC today. And it's not funding which is holding back Chinese fabs.
It's personnel which is the limitations, and remember that there are also memory fabs which are trying to ramp up as well. And everyone is competing for the same people.
I agree that the Chinese semiconductor industry needs to have local alternatives available for every stage, but that does not require Huawei being a semiconductor fab company.
It would be better for them to be a customer, and support/invest in companies producing the tooling and supplies ans chips.
Plus you have to be realistic about what can be achieved by each company, and the timeframes.
The trade and technology war has already spawned new companies and additional support to existing companies. It doesn't all have to come from Huawei.
The Chinese government could force Intel to leave, but it would be self defeating.
The US semiconductor industry is one of the biggest opponents of the trade war.
Plus is there an alternative to Intel chips?
Maybe in 2 years, ARM or RISV-V or other chips may be competitive and also in widespread deployment.
But that is not the situation today.
In addition, it is in China's long term interest for the current liberal trade and investment order to continue.
In the future, China will have many more of its own technology multinationals, combined with being the most influential economy and trading nation.
A break with Intel doesn't help.
Ok, finally you show where you stand. I was wondering what's up with your speaking against Huawei get into Semiconductor manufacturing.
US Semiconductor group was one of the main cause of this trade war. Tsinghua unigroup chairman recently nailed against US tech companies said them made tons of money in China yet fearful China plowing billions into Semiconductor field as subsidies , might threaten their position in future and they speak behind the back against China to policitians in Washington for a long time since Obama time and accumulated to the current trade war. US Semiconductor group is the main culprit of trade war. What they don't agree on is Trump style tariff but they do want to stop China massive subsidies into Semiconductor
Every companies now in China talk about deAmerican tech, following Huawei shinining example.
More liberal and open to other countries except US, Australia. It's the main trend happening in China now. No one there still speak fondly keeping US tech aaround
You and your country stillstill like Intel but not in China.
Zhaoxin x86 ready to take over Intel desktop CPU in China.
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Actually now US tech groups regretted big time talking bad about China behind the back to Washington politicians. They didn't anticipate Trump is being so destructive, burning so many bridges, banned so many Chinese tech companies from using US tech..the golden goose is being killed.
Realistically, the Zhaoxin x86 or any other Chinese alternative is at least 2 years away from mass adoption.
So do you propose to use in that time, to replace Intel/AMD processors?
I agree that Chinese companies need to de-Americanise their products so they aren't vulnerable to any sanctions.
But the alternative technology has to be good enough, otherwise best to keep it in low rate production or as a Plan B ready to ramp up.
And in the meantime, continue to improve it until it is good enough.
I agree.
The US semiconductor companies wanted an end to Chinese government subsidies, but they got a tariff trade war and export bans instead.
And now independence from US technology is the goal of most Chinese companies.
Which has also spread to European (and also presumably Japanese/Korean) companies, who don't want their exports to China controlled by the USA.
So what you've said agrees with my previous statement about US semiconductor companies wanting an end to the trade war.
@tidalwave
To summarise.
I think the priority has to be SMIC, because they're still 2-3 generations behind TSMC, and need all the assistance they can in catching up.
So Huawei semiconductor would be a distraction for SMIC.
Plus Huawei wouldn't be able to do as good a job as SMIC.
And for some semiconductor tools, my understanding is that there are currently no decent non-US alternatives.
Which means it is impossible to get an acceptable chip yield at the end of the process.
Given time, I think Chinese companies could compete, but that will be a few years away.
Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Huawei getting into semiconductor production, and see what happens.
To summarise.
I think the priority has to be SMIC, because they're still 2-3 generations behind TSMC, and need all the assistance they can in catching up.
So Huawei semiconductor would be a distraction for SMIC.
Plus Huawei wouldn't be able to do as good a job as SMIC.
And for some semiconductor tools, my understanding is that there are currently no decent non-US alternatives.
Which means it is impossible to get an acceptable chip yield at the end of the process.
Given time, I think Chinese companies could compete, but that will be a few years away.
Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Huawei getting into semiconductor production, and see what happens.
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