FFG 054/054A Thread

[adeptitus]

The FREMM will be equipped with:
an OTO MELARA 76 gun... 19 torpedoes MU-90... 8 Exocet AShW missiles and 2 complex of 16 VLS missile launchers...
The FREMM's silos will be fitted with 16 MBDA Aster-15... and
16 Scalp-eg LACMs...
The FREMM is based on Lafayette FFG... The 054 resembles the Lafayette...
What do you think?:roll:

The FREMM Frigate is 5,600+ tons, and I think only the French Navy will be equipped with the land-attack version, which use the larger DCN SYLVER A-70 VLS system that could accomodate the SCALP EG cruise missile.

The La Fayette is 3,200-3,600 tons dispalcement, and only equipped with DCN SYLVER A-43 VLS system for 16 x ASTER-15 SAMS.

Hmmm.

The original 054 Frigate was basically a Chinese La Fayette based on 1980s technology. I did a comparison entry on Wikipedia:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The 054A is basically 054 with upgraded domestic and imported Russian systems. If it's indeed equipped with 16 VLS SAM, then that'd match the updated La Fayette FFG's 16 x ASTER-15 SAMs.

The FREMM, RN Type 23 "Duke" class, Fridtjof Nansen, & Spanish F100 class all carry 32-48 SAMs, but they're also 5,000-6,000+ ton displacement and larger in size.

 

[su-27]

Also Italians ships will be equipped with LACMs (!!!)

The Type 23 FFGs are equipped with the sea-wolf system that is far closer than ASTER 15.

the Fridtjof Nansen, & Spanish F100 class as the same design Karel Doorman and Sachsen class are called frigates but there are real air defence DDGs so are better comparable with Oryzon air defence DDG with 48 launchers.

The question is:
If 054A have 16 launchers not strange: the 32 launchers of FREMM will be fitted with 16 SAMs and 16 LACMs, the Lafayettes will replace the crotale system with 16 ASTER-15 VLS SAMs. Note that nor FREMM neither Lafayette are equpped with CIWS but 054A have two advanced CIWS.

If the 054A have 32 launchers, my God, is more armed than FREMM (???),
I think that not all 32 will be fitted with SAMs.

If the 054A could be as capable as Lafayette I think two ways:
If will be made a mass production of 054a I think that will be employed in team with more capable multirole DDGs (I think to a 052b style).

If will be made only 3-4 ships, I think to a test design to develop a FREMM style FFG.

There are talks about first chinese CBG will be made by 11 ships: 1 Varyag, 2 052b, 2 052c, 4 054a, 2 093. Do you like?

 

[adeptitus]

I think the ROCN Kang Ding Class is the only La Fayette FFG with CIWS gun installed (Phalanx). They've been trying to replace the crappy SAM system on it with 16-cel TC-2 VLS for years, but I haven't seen any progress so far.

If all you want is to cram more missiles on the ship, it's possible to do with smaller SAMs like the Israeli Barak VLS, or US RAM/Sea RAM.

If you think about all the Type 76x series dual-37mm AAA guns in use... if you could replace them with something similar to the USN 11-cel Sea RAM CIWS, that'd increase the air defense capability on older PLAN ships by quite a bit.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

IMO the 054 and 054A are GP (General Purpose) FFG's and not intended for AAW/AD roles. The SAM system it carries are for self-defense only and wouldn't have the range or capability for fleet-defense.

Frigates are better suited for ASW roles. I'd like to see the PLAN build ASW flavor of the 054 FFG with towed array sonar and ASROC type weapons. For air defense, something like the 052C would be more capable with bigger and better missiles.

 

[tphuang]

The FREMM, RN Type 23 "Duke" class, Fridtjof Nansen, & Spanish F100 class all carry 32-48 SAMs, but they're also 5,000-6,000+ ton displacement and larger in size.

FREMM is a really bad example, check up on its purpose and you will see why.
Bazan's standard load is 28 SM-2, 64 ESSM - that's 92 missiles for you. I have no idea why it got listed.
The other two aren't even in the displacement range you mentionned
Type 23 like all other RN frigates are used for ASW purpose, also it's standard load is 3500 tonne and full load 4900 tonne.
Nansen is 4600 tonne, it's also used for ASW purposes.

054 is 3900 tonne with full load, so 054A should be over 4000 tonnes. Not as small as you indicate. From its sensor, CIWS and lack of TAS, 054A is clearly intended for AAW roles. PLAN, whether we like it or not, is leaving ASW duties to submarines, aerial assets and subchasers.

Comparison with 052C is not good, since 052C handles the long range air defense, whereas 054A handles more of the medium range air defense.

 

[crobato]

The CDF picture above trying to show how there are in fact 32 hatches doesn't convince me because the line dividing the front eight hatches from the rear eight is parallel to a base-line contecting the opposite hand supports:
[qimg]http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7219/type054vlsaqp3.jpg[/qimg]

I really hope I'm wrong because 16 missiles is too few IMO and places the Type-054A as somewhat more towards middling among the current crop of GP frigates, and almost certainly some way behind the latest Indian Project 17s.

If you check the other two pictures, you will see a shallow roof like structure. The first one, the structure is hoisted prior to installation, the third being installed.

 

[tphuang]

apparently, this picture from the 054A in HD is suppose to show something, but I don't see anything. I will leave it up to you guys.
The guy wrote this on Chinese forums
据内部权威人士及相关人员证实:VLS不存在发射面板向两舷倾斜的情况!
which translates to "According to insiders: VLS not related to the launch of two portholes tilt the face!"

okay, this is probably far more convincing.

 

[Gollevainen]

The pics are just too confusing at this point. Yeas there is a pic of the "roof" type structure elevated atop the VLS system which leads us to think there is 32 missiles. But the pictures showing the VLS system from the side are speaking more of the 16 missile configuration. How hard it's to get a decent bird-perspective image of the frontside of the ship??? ...I mean just clime on the roof of some bloody building!!!...

 

[bd popeye]

All this speculation and guess work could be eliminated,as I have stated before, if the PLA was not so secrective.

Honestly, Why can't they just have a press confrence and say. This is our new Type 054 FFG. We will build X of this type ship. And it's statistics will be as follows:

Blah, Blah , Blah...

Now how hard is that?

But if they did that what fun would all this discussion be???

 

[mehdi]

bd popeye I hope what you said was a joke. Anyway from a sailor I feel that you had too many drinks lately.

 

[bd popeye]

bd popeye I hope what you said was a joke. Anyway from a sailor I feel that you had too many drinks lately.

1) I do not drink alchol in any form. Nor have I in many, many years.

2) I'm not joking. the rest of the world does this. why can't the PRC?

No offense taken.

As an example, Two days ago the USN held a press confrence about the naming of CVN-78. the USN had numerous news releases. Here are two;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Most other weapon producing nations have similar events. Why can't the PRC? What's the big secrect? An FFG is no big secrect. Neither is an CVN or DDG. I don't want to know all the particulars. Just the basic facts. That's all.