F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

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re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Man the QE class carrier project is becoming such a fiasco and reminds me of the CdeG fiasco.. I hope when she finally sails she doesn;t have anywhere close to all the problems that CdG has in the first decade of her life.

She'll be fine...as long as the politicians stays out and away from her. I'm wondering about the fate of her sister ship the "Prince of Wales".

 

[kwaigonegin]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

She'll be fine...as long as the politicians stays out and away from her. I'm wondering about the fate of her sister ship the "Prince of Wales".

you're right EXCEPT the politicians WON'T/CANT' stay away from her.. too many contracts too much political cloud, too much $$$$$ over that entire project. If I am a betting man, I afraid the P of W may never join the Royal fleet. She will be build maybe do a few runs and then probably mothballed or sold to someone else.

 

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re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

you're right EXCEPT the politicians WON'T/CANT' stay away from her.. too many contracts too much political cloud, too much $$$$$ over that entire project. If I am a betting man, I afraid the P of W may never join the Royal fleet. She will be build maybe do a few runs and then probably mothballed or sold to someone else.

Well...the Prince of Wales can always be sold to other NATO and allied nations, therefore it's not a total waste.

 

[Kurt]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The French want a second carrier and consider the Queen-Elizabeth-class. If the French outnumber and outperform the Royal Navy, then truly something has changed in the world. The UK will likely have some second carrier around just to not lag behind the French. Next time buy an enlarged Canberra-class-design from Navantia that better reflects budget capabilities.
The F-35 B is a good bargain because lots of non-sophisticated carriers of small allies can make use of that aircraft - Dutch, Spanish, Italian (Cavour), possibly Australian and so on. Do you want coverage, rather sea-control and support of ground forces with affordable means or devastating strikes with extremely expensive means - US aircraft carrier capability?
The run-of-the-mill intervention can be conducted with STOVL and land based aircrafts from nearby (island) bases that have a tremendous range via aerial refueling. Degressing from this old UK idea of affordable STOVL carriers once more highlights the inherent costs, while STOVL proofed themselves quite capable and easy to surge in the Falklands - validating the concept. As long as you stay blue water, the STOVL is the best mix between a helicopter and a fighter. If you want to go green water the STOVL is more of a support tool integrated with other systems like missile defence and aerial surveillance that delivers bombloads for ground forces.

 

[delft]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The French want a second carrier and consider the Queen-Elizabeth-class. If the French outnumber and outperform the Royal Navy, then truly something has changed in the world. The UK will likely have some second carrier around just to not lag behind the French. Next time buy an enlarged Canberra-class-design from Navantia that better reflects budget capabilities.
The F-35 B is a good bargain because lots of non-sophisticated carriers of small allies can make use of that aircraft - Dutch, Spanish, Italian (Cavour), possibly Australian and so on. Do you want coverage, rather sea-control and support of ground forces with affordable means or devastating strikes with extremely expensive means - US aircraft carrier capability?
The run-of-the-mill intervention can be conducted with STOVL and land based aircrafts from nearby (island) bases that have a tremendous range via aerial refueling. Degressing from this old UK idea of affordable STOVL carriers once more highlights the inherent costs, while STOVL proofed themselves quite capable and easy to surge in the Falklands - validating the concept. As long as you stay blue water, the STOVL is the best mix between a helicopter and a fighter. If you want to go green water the STOVL is more of a support tool integrated with other systems like missile defence and aerial surveillance that delivers bombloads for ground forces.

There will not be a Dutch carrier, much too expensive. Probably pretty soon there will be no Spanish or Italian carriers. France can't buy a second carrier. The UK cannot really buy one carrier, let alone two. And who would buy Prince of Wales? Hungary?
Besides were is the sense in being able to attack countries all over the world. Let every country be able to defend itself.

 

[Equation]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

There will not be a Dutch carrier, much too expensive. Probably pretty soon there will be no Spanish or Italian carriers. France can't buy a second carrier. The UK cannot really buy one carrier, let alone two. And who would buy Prince of Wales? Hungary?
Besides were is the sense in being able to attack countries all over the world. Let every country be able to defend itself.

I know this may sound crazy, but, why not turn the Prince of Wales into half UK owned and half NATO owned with standard operations and wing units of F-35B and eurocopters to operate. It not only cut purchasing and maintenance costs for both UK and Europe but also give them an extra carrier to go around.

 

[kwaigonegin]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

IF the P of W were to be put up for sale the only country I can think of that is potentially viable buyer is Australia. their economy is actually booming unlike Europe and wouldn't surprise me at all if they have a carrier themselves in the next 10 years to counter the Chinese expansion into the SEA region.

 

[Kurt]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

There will not be a Dutch carrier, much too expensive. Probably pretty soon there will be no Spanish or Italian carriers. France can't buy a second carrier. The UK cannot really buy one carrier, let alone two. And who would buy Prince of Wales? Hungary?
Besides were is the sense in being able to attack countries all over the world. Let every country be able to defend itself.

The Dutch have a very strong amphibious force component. These amphibs are very cheap in comparison to carriers and both the Spanish Juan Carlos as well as the Italian Cavour are not carriers, but amphibs that can fly fixed wing aircrafts. They cost about as much as one frigate that is the basic naval surface unit and about twice as much as a SSC. The Canberra class has a much higher price tag, probably due to electronics, but still far below US costs for a gator and only twice as much as an air defense frigate. Combining support and troop shipment in one ship, a joint support ship, like the Karel Doorman, will be the future for small navies. Even the small ones, like everyone else do have the urge to be part of sea power projection in alliance - the new basic concept of NATO.

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Of course I admire the late Kelly Johnson. But those F-104G's were not sold to us as interceptors but as fighter bombers, able to haul a large load of bombs and missiles, even nuclear bombs. And the Dutch and the Germans and probably every other user lost a quarter of them due to accidents and very many pilots. The noise of the J-79 was horrible but could only intimidate people on the ground. ( Dutch Starfighters were used to help end the hostage taking in a railway train by descendants of Moluccan former members of the Dutch colonial army in what is now Indonesia. These men were given a service order to embark to The Netherlands after the Dutch lost the war against that country in 1949. They were cashiered immediately on arrival and put into camps. They were badly treated. )
Also I'm very sure that LockMart is not the company it was while Kelly worked there.

Thank you master delft for reinforcing my point, and yes the Luftwaffe cross looked very kool on the 104, I picked that one to elaborate on because I knew you would whine about "that one". For one thing the German Air Force knows and knew a thing or two about those very dangerous jet fighters and their operation, NO? Any pilot can look at that bird and the size of its wing and "know" exactly what it is, and what it will and won't do, and that it will be fast, it will be a handfull, and it will have a large "coffin corner". Incidentally, the P-38, F-104, U-2, SR-71, and the F-22 all have some "bad habits", and yet they are each one a "life saver" and provide very superior capabilities to their contemporaries in addition to expanding our "war fighting" capability, they all demand "MEN" to fly them who are willing and Able to operate them within their design parameters, the F-35 will offer no less IMHO. Oh and the J-79 howl is music to her fans and those German pilots loved their 104s and so did their many admirers, and though dangerous, they played a very important role in keeping the allies free, and yes flying a "dangerous airplane" is much safer than fighting a "dangerous WAR". The F-35 promises to be much safer, really she does! I think the trite little saying that applies is "freedom is'nt free", but then nothing worthwhile is, is it?

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I know this may sound crazy, but, why not turn the Prince of Wales into half UK owned and half NATO owned with standard operations and wing units of F-35B and eurocopters to operate. It not only cut purchasing and maintenance costs for both UK and Europe but also give them an extra carrier to go around.

"there ya go"