F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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Equation
Lieutenant General
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
LOL...patience...young Jedi! Kurt is a deep thinker you have to know him in order to understand where he's coming from as far as his view points.
LOL...patience...young Jedi! Kurt is a deep thinker you have to know him in order to understand where he's coming from as far as his view points.
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
In addition to th UK, you have several other nations involved in...and interested in the B version. Like Spain, Italy, Australia, the Japanese, Korea, etc. because all of them have developed and fielded, or are fielding either STOVL, or VTOL carriers for their Navies and there are not any more Harriers being produced. The F-35B also represents a significant improvement over the Harrier and gives their carriers some very decent air defense and strike capabilities over the Harrier.
If you are able to augment those carries (as well as our own LHAs and LHDs with an AEW Osprey and a dedicated ASW Osprey. If you added those two aircraft to the mix, then all of a sudden a Japanese DDH22 (the larger follow on to the Hyuga) or a Australian Canberra becomes a much more capable sea control carrier, and a more serious threat to a carrier like the PLAN ex-Varyag, or the Russian Kuznetsov.
So, I expect quite a few B models to be sold around the world...though the A model will be the most numerous (I predict it will become the next "western" F-16 as time goes on. The C model will be for people loike the US Navy and anyone else operating CATOBAR carriers...(which are only a few countries, the US, France, and Brazil...which measn for all intents and purposes the C will only be used off of American carriers in a carrier role), although some nations will buy the C and use it as their "Air Force" variety because of the increased wing size and what that lends to the C over the A.
Going to be an interesting few decades associated with this aircraft.
The US Marines will get lots of J-35Bs before it is all said and done, and will begin phasing out the Harriers as they come on line.
In addition to th UK, you have several other nations involved in...and interested in the B version. Like Spain, Italy, Australia, the Japanese, Korea, etc. because all of them have developed and fielded, or are fielding either STOVL, or VTOL carriers for their Navies and there are not any more Harriers being produced. The F-35B also represents a significant improvement over the Harrier and gives their carriers some very decent air defense and strike capabilities over the Harrier.
If you are able to augment those carries (as well as our own LHAs and LHDs with an AEW Osprey and a dedicated ASW Osprey. If you added those two aircraft to the mix, then all of a sudden a Japanese DDH22 (the larger follow on to the Hyuga) or a Australian Canberra becomes a much more capable sea control carrier, and a more serious threat to a carrier like the PLAN ex-Varyag, or the Russian Kuznetsov.
So, I expect quite a few B models to be sold around the world...though the A model will be the most numerous (I predict it will become the next "western" F-16 as time goes on. The C model will be for people loike the US Navy and anyone else operating CATOBAR carriers...(which are only a few countries, the US, France, and Brazil...which measn for all intents and purposes the C will only be used off of American carriers in a carrier role), although some nations will buy the C and use it as their "Air Force" variety because of the increased wing size and what that lends to the C over the A.
Going to be an interesting few decades associated with this aircraft.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
I wish I was young enough to be around to see it, especially the knockers eating their words.Maybe I might make it to a hundred with the help of a daily bottle of red wine for medicinal purposes.
I wish I was young enough to be around to see it, especially the knockers eating their words.Maybe I might make it to a hundred with the help of a daily bottle of red wine for medicinal purposes.
Kurt
Junior Member
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
I finally found my aircraft with thrust reversal upon landing that shortened runway length to a requirement of 300m, the Panavia Tornado. 112 were employed by the German navy, similar to the Swedish STOL land based naval fighter concept (defending the entrance to the Baltic Sea during the Cold War). For whatever reason the Royal Navy doesn't seem to have used these RAF fighters. The thrust reversal in the Tornado was engineered to happen as soon as the undercarriage makes ground contact.
It would significantly reduce airframe requirements for STOL, but for some reasons, unknown to me, has not yet been adopted for carrier aircrafts.
Jeff is right that from an economic point of view the non-STOL and non-STOVL version will be the most important with reduced costs due to one engine only, very F-16 like. The navy could possibly even settle for STOVL, reducing the number of prototypes. That runs 100% counter to my proposal for a one-size-fits-all.
What are the STOL repercussions?
If massive investments in engineering seem capable of marginalize them, then it would be perfect.
If you don't want to take this bet the two tier approach with some carrier STOL rather as a special branch of STOVL (with STOL operations having only half the accident rate) is most viable.
I finally found my aircraft with thrust reversal upon landing that shortened runway length to a requirement of 300m, the Panavia Tornado. 112 were employed by the German navy, similar to the Swedish STOL land based naval fighter concept (defending the entrance to the Baltic Sea during the Cold War). For whatever reason the Royal Navy doesn't seem to have used these RAF fighters. The thrust reversal in the Tornado was engineered to happen as soon as the undercarriage makes ground contact.
It would significantly reduce airframe requirements for STOL, but for some reasons, unknown to me, has not yet been adopted for carrier aircrafts.
Jeff is right that from an economic point of view the non-STOL and non-STOVL version will be the most important with reduced costs due to one engine only, very F-16 like. The navy could possibly even settle for STOVL, reducing the number of prototypes. That runs 100% counter to my proposal for a one-size-fits-all.
What are the STOL repercussions?
If massive investments in engineering seem capable of marginalize them, then it would be perfect.
If you don't want to take this bet the two tier approach with some carrier STOL rather as a special branch of STOVL (with STOL operations having only half the accident rate) is most viable.
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
There is a considerable possibility that the UK will not buy any F-35, because in a few years time it can't pay for them.
To tailor an aircraft version to the needs, wants and desires of several end users still results in heavier aircraft than when the aircraft are designed for those users. Of course tailoring an aircraft to the needs &c. of several air forces is likely to make sense. But coming up with a design for an aircraft with conventional and STOVL versions does not, designing for use by air forces and from flattops is ambitious. The F-35A and C will carry the scars of this mistake even if the F-35B were to be abandoned now.
There is a considerable possibility that the UK will not buy any F-35, because in a few years time it can't pay for them.
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
While I am absolutely in aggreement with you, let me step out of my [F-22 Funk} crotchety early on apparaisal of the F-35, [which R still right on the money} and say this. The F-35 has been designed by our friends at LockMart, they have a history of getting the job done, {P-38, F-104, C-130, EC-121, SR-71, U-2, F-22, etc,etc,} all very cutting edge birds designed to fill a need. While only the C-130 and F-35 remain in production, you can sense that LockMart is often there with the right bird for the job, at a price you will be glad to pay, given that no one else will build you what you "want". I know some of you whiners will say the F-104 was a "dangerous airplane", but let me remind you that Kelly Johnson designed a light tactical aircraft to bring down supersonic nuclear bombers with a well placed missile shot. Yes it is dangerous, but if you have even heard that J-79 Howl, it is also a psychological weapon. It is still FAAAASSST! and thats how they sold it, the missle with a man in it! My point is, Lockheed will get it in the ballpark, the rest is up to you. It will not be cheap, it will not be FFFAAASSSSST, but it will do what it was designed to do, haul a load in reasonable stealthy manner, strike the target as advertised, and hopefully, take ya home, albeit at a leisurely pace, hope no flanker driver sees ya, if he does I hope you've still got a coupla those fancy pants off bore sight A2A missles left, or at least a Halo of Raptors, the heavenly bird! Cheers Brat
While I am absolutely in aggreement with you, let me step out of my [F-22 Funk} crotchety early on apparaisal of the F-35, [which R still right on the money} and say this. The F-35 has been designed by our friends at LockMart, they have a history of getting the job done, {P-38, F-104, C-130, EC-121, SR-71, U-2, F-22, etc,etc,} all very cutting edge birds designed to fill a need. While only the C-130 and F-35 remain in production, you can sense that LockMart is often there with the right bird for the job, at a price you will be glad to pay, given that no one else will build you what you "want". I know some of you whiners will say the F-104 was a "dangerous airplane", but let me remind you that Kelly Johnson designed a light tactical aircraft to bring down supersonic nuclear bombers with a well placed missile shot. Yes it is dangerous, but if you have even heard that J-79 Howl, it is also a psychological weapon. It is still FAAAASSST! and thats how they sold it, the missle with a man in it! My point is, Lockheed will get it in the ballpark, the rest is up to you. It will not be cheap, it will not be FFFAAASSSSST, but it will do what it was designed to do, haul a load in reasonable stealthy manner, strike the target as advertised, and hopefully, take ya home, albeit at a leisurely pace, hope no flanker driver sees ya, if he does I hope you've still got a coupla those fancy pants off bore sight A2A missles left, or at least a Halo of Raptors, the heavenly bird! Cheers Brat
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Of course I admire the late Kelly Johnson. But those F-104G's were not sold to us as interceptors but as fighter bombers, able to haul a large load of bombs and missiles, even nuclear bombs. And the Dutch and the Germans and probably every other user lost a quarter of them due to accidents and very many pilots. The noise of the J-79 was horrible but could only intimidate people on the ground. ( Dutch Starfighters were used to help end the hostage taking in a railway train by descendants of Moluccan former members of the Dutch colonial army in what is now Indonesia. These men were given a service order to embark to The Netherlands after the Dutch lost the war against that country in 1949. They were cashiered immediately on arrival and put into camps. They were badly treated. )
Also I'm very sure that LockMart is not the company it was while Kelly worked there.
Of course I admire the late Kelly Johnson. But those F-104G's were not sold to us as interceptors but as fighter bombers, able to haul a large load of bombs and missiles, even nuclear bombs. And the Dutch and the Germans and probably every other user lost a quarter of them due to accidents and very many pilots. The noise of the J-79 was horrible but could only intimidate people on the ground. ( Dutch Starfighters were used to help end the hostage taking in a railway train by descendants of Moluccan former members of the Dutch colonial army in what is now Indonesia. These men were given a service order to embark to The Netherlands after the Dutch lost the war against that country in 1949. They were cashiered immediately on arrival and put into camps. They were badly treated. )
Also I'm very sure that LockMart is not the company it was while Kelly worked there.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Man the QE class carrier project is becoming such a fiasco and reminds me of the CdeG fiasco.. I hope when she finally sails she doesn;t have anywhere close to all the problems that CdG has in the first decade of her life.
Man the QE class carrier project is becoming such a fiasco and reminds me of the CdeG fiasco.. I hope when she finally sails she doesn;t have anywhere close to all the problems that CdG has in the first decade of her life.