F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Scratch

Captain
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Indeed, Brat, the Raptor force will be a massive drawdown of numbers. But, to make things a little worse here, the F-35 numbers you brought up aren't really the full truth either, are they?
Those 2.400 planes, besides the mentioned 2.230 F-16s, will also have to replace 750 A-10s, 340 AV-8B, 370 F/A-18A-D. Wich is a net deficit of 1.290 planes, roughly, if my numbers are correct. Ok, honestly there's probably way less aircraft in service now anyway than were originally procured of any aforementioned type, and some are already replaced, like Hornts by SuperHornets.
 

Quickie

Colonel
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

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Questions about safety, cost overruns raise doubts about the entire program's feasibility

updated 1 hour 48 minutes ago 2012-02-27T13:49:22
Print Font: +-EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. — The best fighter pilots from the Air Force, Marines and Navy arrived in the Florida Panhandle last year to learn to fly the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the most expensive, most advanced weapons program in U.S. history. They are still waiting.

Concerns about the stealth jets' safety, cost overruns and questions about the entire program's feasibility have delayed the training and left about 35 pilots mostly outside the cockpit. The most the pilots do with the nine F-35s at Eglin Air Force Base is occasionally taxi them and fire up the engines. Otherwise their training is limited to three F-35 flight simulators, classroom work and flights in older-model jets. Only a handful of test pilots get to fly the F-35s.

"The most-frustrated pilot is one who isn't flying at all," said Marine Col. Arthur Tomassetti, vice commander of the fighter wing and a former test pilot for the F-35 prototype.

Built by Lockheed Martin under a 2001 contract, the F-35 is supposed to replace Cold War-era aircraft such as the Air Force's F-16 fighter and the Navy's and Marines' F/A-18 Hornet. It would also be sold to many NATO countries and other U.S. allies.

Costing between $65 million and $100 million each, depending on the version, the F-35 is described as a generational leap from older fighter jets. A single-seat aircraft, it can fly at about 1,050 mph and, officials say, fight both air-to-air and air-to-ground significantly better than its predecessors.

One version can land on an aircraft carrier while another can hover, landing on and taking off from a helicopter carrier. It carries more fuel and more ordnance internally than older fighter jets, allowing it to maintain stealth, and has the latest onboard computer systems, allowing the pilot to control the plane and communicate with other aircraft and interact with ground commanders like never before.

"From a flying perspective, what we call the stick and rudder is the same for any platform, but when you integrate the sensors, the pilot has the capability to make much better decisions and be much more precise," said Air Force Col Andrew Toth, the training wing's commander. His name adorns one of the school's F-35s.

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.And because it is to be used by all three branches of the U.S. military that fly fighter jets and by U.S. allies, training and maintenance could be handled jointly. That's intended to save money compared to having separate, parallel maintenance and training groups in each force.

But just as the program appeared to be taking off, it was grounded over a variety of concerns. They range from improperly installed parachutes under the pilots' ejector seats, to worries at the Pentagon that there has not been enough testing of the jets, to ongoing concerns by some in Congress that the entire F-35 program is too expensive. Its projected cost has jumped from $233 billion to an estimated $385 billion, including development. Forty-three F-35s have been built and another 2,443 have been ordered by the Pentagon.

'Ready to train'
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said earlier this month that the Air Force wasn't ready to start student flights at Eglin.

"The plan will be to start flying, not training, but to start flying with test-qualified aviators initially to do what we call local area orientation," he said. "We will build to a threshold, which will allow the training leadership in the Air Force to declare 'ready to train' with other than test-qualified aviators."

Questions about funding, slow production of the aircraft and uncertainty about overall strategy have contributed to inefficiencies in money and manpower, said Baker Spring, a defense analyst with the Washington-based Heritage Foundation.

Spring said the complicated way the Pentagon budgeting process worked has trickled down to the pilots at the school.

"You have people out there twiddling their thumbs waiting for planes. This contributes to the high unit costs," Spring said.

All of this has left the first batch of would-be F-35 pilots in training limbo. This is supposed to be the first time fighter pilots from all three branches train together and they are looking forward to both the competition and learning from each other.

Michael Spooneybarger / Reuters
A U.S. Marine F-35B Joint Strike Fighter Jet sits in a hangar after the roll-out Ceremony at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida February 24, 2012.
"All of the pilots here are incredibly talented, hand-picked, board-selected, they are the best of the best and the opportunity to come here is and fly the F-35 as a Marine operator is truly the career opportunity of a lifetime," said Marine Lt. Col. Jim Wellons said at ceremony for the jet at Eglin last year.

"There is so much that we can learn from each other. We in the Marine Corps are focused on supporting the Marine on the ground, even though we have an airplane that can perform air combat and the full range of tactical missions. The Air Force fighter community also supports the man on the ground but they have a significant strategic focus. The Navy is very focused on shipboard operations, so we all have our different strengths and probably weaknesses."

When the school becomes fully operational, dozens of pilots and hundreds of F-35 crew members will funnel through Eglin each year.

"Right now it looks like a large building out here with empty hallways, but we are going to have 900 students soon," said the Marine's Col. Tomassetti during a tour of the largely empty school last year.

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.Tomassetti said this month that the school continues to wait for a "ready to train" order from the Pentagon. The colonel said he and the Marines he commands are eager to fly new jet.

"We do have F-16s on loan and some of our pilots are going off station to fly other jets. They are flying and they understand that this is part of standing up a new program," he said.

When the Pentagon decides to allow the Eglin planes to fly is anyone's guess, said J.R. McDonald, Lockheed's Eglin-based vice president of corporate domestic business development.

"I think we are close but it is a U.S. government decision and the government enterprise will decide when it decides. The (fighter wing) just has to patient because they have done everything they can do," he said.

"I've stopped making predictions."
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Patience young skywalker, didn't it seem like Yoda was awfully impatient, but with a name like quickie, he says "I've stopped making predictions". It does seem as if they are making some progress on issues brought to light during the QLR, it appears from the latest pictures with hard points and missles that they have some type of metallic coating on the trailing edge of the horizontal stabs to combat erosion from AB.

---------- Post added at 11:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

Indeed, Brat, the Raptor force will be a massive drawdown of numbers. But, to make things a little worse here, the F-35 numbers you brought up aren't really the full truth either, are they?
Those 2.400 planes, besides the mentioned 2.230 F-16s, will also have to replace 750 A-10s, 340 AV-8B, 370 F/A-18A-D. Wich is a net deficit of 1.290 planes, roughly, if my numbers are correct. Ok, honestly there's probably way less aircraft in service now anyway than were originally procured of any aforementioned type, and some are already replaced, like Hornts by SuperHornets.
Yes that is true scratch, their is currently an effort to rewing the A-10, with a tougher wing with thicker skins, and many F-18s are having the centerbarrel upgraded or replaced with SLEs so all is not lost, but it sure is getting tougher, I would love to see the Raptor back in production for a start, as I'm quite certain I would sleep better at night. Speaking of which, their was a funny little poster floating about 30 years ago, which showed a gnarly little man, wearing a jet jockey helmet with a ciggy hangin out of his mouth, and about a week or two worth of stubble in a flight suit saying "sleep tight America, your Air Force is on alert". I'm may be dreaming, but I think even some f-16 were receiving some center barrel work.
 

delft

Brigadier
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

F-35 will not reach its specification:
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Pentagon agrees to F-35A combat radius reduction

By: DAVE MAJUMDAR WASHINGTON DC


The US military has slightly relaxed the Lockheed Martin F-35A's range requirements because the effort required to achieve the original specification is not worth the cost, the US Air Force's top uniformed officer told Congress on 6 March.

"The difference between the key performance parameter for distance versus the estimate for performance was five miles [8km]," said USAF Chief of Staff Gen Norton Schwartz during his testimony before the House of Representatives' Committee on Appropriations. "The question to me is: How much do we want to invest in order to recover that five miles margin?"

For the USAF the additional cost to regain the lost combat radius is not worth the money, which is why the Pentagon's Joint Requirements Oversight Council decided to relax the performance demanded for the stealthy fifth-generation fighter. USAF Vice Chief of Staff Gen Philip Breedlove sits on that council.

"It was a judgement call," Schwartz said. "And not an unreasonable one."

In May 2011, Flightglobal reported that the conventional take-off and landing F-35A's combat radius had dropped to 1,080km, or about 11km short of the requirement. The combat radius for the other two F-35 variants had also declined, but remained above their minimum thresholds.

The range was reduced after Pratt & Whitney diverted more bleed air from the F135 powerplant for cooling purposes, as the engine was running hotter than expected. The USAF also accepted new estimates that reduced the F-35A's fuel capacity and added the weight and drag of the Lockheed electro-optical targeting system.

This article doesn't seem to me really consistent, but it does indicate that F-35 is in trouble in its -A version as it is in its -B and -C versions.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

F-35 will not reach its specification:
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This article doesn't seem to me really consistent, but it does indicate that F-35 is in trouble in its -A version as it is in its -B and -C versions.

Yes, with her burning her tailfeathers off and now the bleed air for cooling, it gives "Hot Ship" a whole new meaning, Delft, I hope you won't mind me suggesting a new name for her, I really think the "Arkansas Razorback" is more appropriate than lightning II. With the glad hope that this cool more descriptive nick name will harken back to Republics beloved "JUG".
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Yes, with her burning her tailfeathers off and now the bleed air for cooling, it gives "Hot Ship" a whole new meaning, Delft, I hope you won't mind me suggesting a new name for her, I really think the "Arkansas Razorback" is more appropriate than lightning II. With the glad hope that this cool more descriptive nick name will harken back to Republics beloved "JUG".

Are you referring to this particular "Arkansas Razorback" as to former President Bill Clinton or some SEC (Southeastern Conference) team?:p
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Are you referring to this particular "Arkansas Razorback" as to former President Bill Clinton or some SEC (Southeastern Conference) team?:p

No sir, in no way am I being durogatory, my Dad retired from LRAFB, and the Razorbacks where the home team, but always underdogs. A razor back is a thick hog, with mean looking hackles, so no reference to "wild bill c". No I was thinkin the F-35 is a little thick chested, kind of like Republics P-47, which came to lovingly be referred to as a JUG, after receiving a four bladed prop that greatly improved climb performance. I still want my Raptor back, but till that happens, {I Believe it Will} this is our chick, and in reality, she ain't no flash. Soooooo, I am respectfully offering this up to u fellow Sino D brothers, she does have lots of thrust, shes heavy, so lets hope shes tuff, I think we've got some bright people up to the challenge, but I'd like to hear more about what theyre doing to get her where she needs to be.LOL Yes to the SEC team. You are a bright lad.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

No sir, in no way am I being durogatory, my Dad retired from LRAFB, and the Razorbacks where the home team, but always underdogs. A razor back is a thick hog, with mean looking hackles, so no reference to "wild bill c". No I was thinkin the F-35 is a little thick chested, kind of like Republics P-47, which came to lovingly be referred to as a JUG, after receiving a four bladed prop that greatly improved climb performance. I still want my Raptor back, but till that happens, {I Believe it Will} this is our chick, and in reality, she ain't no flash. Soooooo, I am respectfully offering this up to u fellow Sino D brothers, she does have lots of thrust, shes heavy, so lets hope shes tuff, I think we've got some bright people up to the challenge, but I'd like to hear more about what theyre doing to get her where she needs to be.LOL Yes to the SEC team. You are a bright lad.

Well said, AFB, but I don't think the Razorbacks were ever an underdog for that long, they've always have a great football program and very competitive during the old Southwestern Conference days. They can hang right there with Texas and OU. I like to compare the F-35 to the Pitt bull dog, strong, good size, fast, very aggressive, and won't quit on a fight and very loyal to its owner.
 
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