Re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Not really. Using stealth is like being dressed in black, trying to sneak up on someone in the dark. Using jammers is like pointing flashlight in someones face trying to blind him . Mutually exclusive in most cases .
Using the flashlight analogy is too simple. But fine:
1) it is dark (otherwise you wouldn't need the search light (radar))
2) someone is dressed in camouflage (stealthy airframe)
3) you finally manage to see something that looks like a human (stealthy airframe) and not a bird (other irrelevant radar returns) or something that moved by the wind (erroneous radar blips)
4a) you get blinded by a strong light so you lose track of that human for a while (on-board jammer) and when your eyes get used to the sudden bright flash of light (jammer), the light is turned off again (jamming turned off to prevent home-on-jamming missiles/trackers and to try and be stealthy again). It takes a while before your eyes are used to the darkness again and you are trying to find that human again.
4b) what happens with 4a but when someone else flashes the light (dedicated jammers).
Well, F-117 was not used for air combat, F-35 will . F-35 is Joint Strike Fighter , but unfortunately it will be used in air to air role, especially in some smaller airforces . As for usefulness of supersonic speeds in air combat, volumes has been written about it (yes, it is useful if you know what to do ) .
Well, there are also volumes written how useful stealth is too, if you know how to use it.
Israel wants new planes, same as Gulf states . No new F-15s are being produced (Silent Eagle unfortunately getting slashed) . Also , F-15E (F-15I) is somewhat inferior to F-35A in strike role, I admit that . So what could Israelis do ? Lobby for restart of F-15 production or get some F-35s for free? On the other side, Gulf states are paying for their equipment, so they have other options (Typhoon, Rafale etc .. )
To my understanding the Eagle line is still open due to the SA variant. The F-15SA is the most advanced variant produced and that's why Israel is complaining. If the Gulf states are allowed to buy (non-downgraded) F-35s, then they too would view it as better than the Typhoon etc. In the article which you earlier provided, the author explained why those Gulf states are not yet deciding on buying new fighters yet, because they want to see if they get their hands on the F-35.
They complained to get best US has to offer for free in that time. Compared to F-16s and F-15s with mechanically steered radars, F-35 is somewhat better, I admit that . Had US upgraded F-16s and F-15s with AESA and some other things from F-35 program, maybe they would want that .
1) you really think that current flying, fatigue-suffering F-15Cs and F-16Cs are worth upgrading and sending your pilots into combat with them?
They are producing parts and upgrade kits, not new airframes .
The Saudi buy of F-15s carries the company’s production line, based in St. Louis, through 2018. A
Also, Singapore is also buying (anonymously) new Eagles. So that line may well last beyond 2018.
Projected cost of F-35 is a joke, especially after this unplanned engine changes . US was paying over $120 million per plane in 2013 , without engines and spares .
When starting the production line, those first builds are always going to be more pricier than when the line is up and running. How many F-35s are flying? Not fair to compare to the multitude of F-15s etc. currently flying.
Speed, maneuverability ...
The F-22 which you've brought up a couple of times has demonstrated that in order to achieve stealth, speed and maneuverability is not per se sacrificed. The question is: was the US correct in assuming F-16-like maneuverability is sufficient for the F-35? LM is a commercial company, they won't build a fighter that is much much better than what's preferred or even required. Imagine the problems they'd have if they not only need to build an airframe that satifies the needs of the USAF, USN and the Marines, but also be better than the F-22.
Jammers have been developed to confuse AESA radars too, it is ongoing battle . Also, Mig-21 were downed by Mirage III or F-4s , yet they managed to score simulated kills on F-15s . Therefore, Mig-29s that lost from F-16s could potentially defeat F-35 with right avionics .
1) Yes they'll be able to be jammed, but not yet by that Mig-21, yet. Not many countries besides the US can produce AESA radars, let alone the jammers.
2) The examples you've brought forward show that more maneuverable opponents can be beaten by less maneuverable opponents. This is consistent with what I've claimed: the F-35 does have a chance in WVR even though it may not be as maneuverable as other airframes. As a matter of a fact: thanks to its stealth + the ability to jam the F-22s radar, only the F-35 has a realistic chance to get close/ WVR and fight the F-22 in a dogfight. Other fighters should've be blown out of the sky before it comes to that.
