F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread
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re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
That's kind of my point, I'm tryin to feel the love for the JSF, but the F-22 was Shanghaid to make way for the JSF, the "we're all in this together bird". We can all sing kombiah, while we pray that we can get it up to speed. What we should have done, and what some old heads would have done, was keep building those F-22s that we will need to maintain a highly capable posture, that has kept those who have been tempted and will be tempted to thump us in the chest, to think, maybe thats not a good idea. The same folks who argue that JSF will get cheaper, pushed aside a more mature, more capable airframe, with right now capability, that would have gotten cheaper as well. Our civilian masters have put us in a box, with no wiggle room on time, and the JSF needs time, shes just not up to the job. The JSF was designed to be the F-22s little sister, thats all she's ever likely to be. The shame is, she's likely to get beat up by the neighborhood bullies, because her big sister won't be there to take care of her, and give her the time grow into her role, in the meantime our allies are saying, where's our airplanes. These things aren't complicated, we have learned this lesson before, at Pearl Harbor, in Europe, in Korea, in Vietnam. The cold war was stressfull, expensive, and instructive, mutual strength keeps us safe, all of us, not only our friends, but the other guys as well. People who know, have a responsibility to lead, at any cost, because our children are depending on us to keep them safe. We need the JSF, the likelyhood is that it will continue to get more expensive as we keep pushing it to do more and more, and incorporate all the neighbors favorite do-dads, and she has a bunch of do-dads! Maybe instead of the arms race, we could characterise it as the peace race, the race to stay safe, in a dangerous world. Whats that worth to you?
That's kind of my point, I'm tryin to feel the love for the JSF, but the F-22 was Shanghaid to make way for the JSF, the "we're all in this together bird". We can all sing kombiah, while we pray that we can get it up to speed. What we should have done, and what some old heads would have done, was keep building those F-22s that we will need to maintain a highly capable posture, that has kept those who have been tempted and will be tempted to thump us in the chest, to think, maybe thats not a good idea. The same folks who argue that JSF will get cheaper, pushed aside a more mature, more capable airframe, with right now capability, that would have gotten cheaper as well. Our civilian masters have put us in a box, with no wiggle room on time, and the JSF needs time, shes just not up to the job. The JSF was designed to be the F-22s little sister, thats all she's ever likely to be. The shame is, she's likely to get beat up by the neighborhood bullies, because her big sister won't be there to take care of her, and give her the time grow into her role, in the meantime our allies are saying, where's our airplanes. These things aren't complicated, we have learned this lesson before, at Pearl Harbor, in Europe, in Korea, in Vietnam. The cold war was stressfull, expensive, and instructive, mutual strength keeps us safe, all of us, not only our friends, but the other guys as well. People who know, have a responsibility to lead, at any cost, because our children are depending on us to keep them safe. We need the JSF, the likelyhood is that it will continue to get more expensive as we keep pushing it to do more and more, and incorporate all the neighbors favorite do-dads, and she has a bunch of do-dads! Maybe instead of the arms race, we could characterise it as the peace race, the race to stay safe, in a dangerous world. Whats that worth to you?
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
america is in an awkward situation: the F-22 production has been terminated, (its a bit dated anyway); the F-35 is not good enough, at least not as good as america has always expected for its main striker that suppose to dominate any potential enemy; to develop a new fighter is financially beyond its means
america is in an awkward situation: the F-22 production has been terminated, (its a bit dated anyway); the F-35 is not good enough, at least not as good as america has always expected for its main striker that suppose to dominate any potential enemy; to develop a new fighter is financially beyond its means
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Yes we are, but theres nothing new about that. It certainly has, perhaps our Russian friends will let us partner with them on Pak-Fa. The F-35 "will" be good enough, shes a toddler, walking and talking, and she "will" meet our expectations. No one who understands the mission of JSF, expected her to have to be the number 1 air superiority fighter, that is the role of the F-22, and thankfully we still have 185 of those magnificent aircraft. Well we're just not to smart that way, we keep trying to help pay the price to promote freedom in the world, and as a free man, I'm going to do my best, to keep doing my share so that you and I can keep speaking our mind. Like I said we're not very smart are we?
Yes we are, but theres nothing new about that. It certainly has, perhaps our Russian friends will let us partner with them on Pak-Fa. The F-35 "will" be good enough, shes a toddler, walking and talking, and she "will" meet our expectations. No one who understands the mission of JSF, expected her to have to be the number 1 air superiority fighter, that is the role of the F-22, and thankfully we still have 185 of those magnificent aircraft. Well we're just not to smart that way, we keep trying to help pay the price to promote freedom in the world, and as a free man, I'm going to do my best, to keep doing my share so that you and I can keep speaking our mind. Like I said we're not very smart are we?
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
185 is not a number that is sustainable in the event of any major warfare requiring their services.
IMHO, if we got a big enough change in 2012, we can and should restart production and build at least 500 more of them. Then the anticipated complimentary posture of the F-22 and the JSF could be realized the way it was intended.
The people who complained the most about the F-22 and its costs were the ones who kept slashing the numbers, trying to act surprised that the cost on a per aircraft basis that was designed for around 1000 build would go up when reduced to 700, 400 and now 185. That marvelous technology was not cheap and was planned to be amortized out over the 1000+ aircrat.
185 is not a number that is sustainable in the event of any major warfare requiring their services.
IMHO, if we got a big enough change in 2012, we can and should restart production and build at least 500 more of them. Then the anticipated complimentary posture of the F-22 and the JSF could be realized the way it was intended.
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
That sir, is why you, are the Headmaster of the Olde School, it is after all another affirmation of the olde engineers adage, "that form follows function". I do get frustrated by our buddies the "talkers", who seem to think that the F-35 will magically morph into the F-57, when you task it with air superiority and ground attack. Then they tell you, you're just not good at math. I am very impressed with the efforts of the other players, and always a flanker fan, I must confess to being impressed but not suprised at the A efforts of the other teams. Its always best when parity is matched by mutual respect, one reason I really enjoy this venue. bd popeye if you have no objection, I would like for Jeff to post a picture for me on "gollevainen's quiz of the week", as he seems to have a vast reserve of "good stuff". Jeff your 500 more F-22s is just what the Dr. ordered, and I do hope we have that "sea change" in November. the Brat
That sir, is why you, are the Headmaster of the Olde School, it is after all another affirmation of the olde engineers adage, "that form follows function". I do get frustrated by our buddies the "talkers", who seem to think that the F-35 will magically morph into the F-57, when you task it with air superiority and ground attack. Then they tell you, you're just not good at math. I am very impressed with the efforts of the other players, and always a flanker fan, I must confess to being impressed but not suprised at the A efforts of the other teams. Its always best when parity is matched by mutual respect, one reason I really enjoy this venue. bd popeye if you have no objection, I would like for Jeff to post a picture for me on "gollevainen's quiz of the week", as he seems to have a vast reserve of "good stuff". Jeff your 500 more F-22s is just what the Dr. ordered, and I do hope we have that "sea change" in November. the Brat
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re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Well, I was gonna say, now that it's closed people will also come up with the argument of the expenses of reopening the line. But then again, I believe the production line is really just being mouthballed. Something not seen too often when production of a jet ceases.
So maybe someone left a small opportunity there for the future.
Maybe some more of the Raptor stuff will make it's way into the Eagle force to keep it up to speed for the air dominance role. But besides the APG-63 (V)3 sadly it won't be that much I guess.
Towards the primary topic: There's an article on the subject by the washington post hinting towards exspected extra costs in the future when all the planes being already ordered & built might need expensive upgrades, to incooperate what ongoing testing is still to reveal.
F-35 production a troubling example of Pentagon spending
By Walter Pincus,
There are 56 F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters being assembled at Lockheed Martin’s facility in Fort Worth. But because only 20 percent of the testing for the most advanced fighter-bomber in U.S. history is completed, each will probably have to get million-dollar-or-more fixes later.
The F-35 is already the most costly U.S. weapons program underway at about $385 billion. But that figure may go higher with overrun of the per-plane contract price for the 56 craft being assembled — along with the future multimillion-dollar fixes likely to be required for them — and the 15 F-35s completed but not yet delivered to the military services.
The plane is being built with the most sophisticated stealth technology, but initial flight tests have turned up hot spots and cracks associated with metal and composites used on most new aircraft. The development of the software controlling the F-35’s major warfighting functions, the most complex ever planned for an airplane, has been delayed so that the last block will not be introduced to the aircraft until at least June 2015.
Earlier this month, Vice Adm. David J. Venlet, executive officer for the F-35 program, said in an interview with the online service AOL that he recommended slowing down current production lines to reduce the replacement costs that will be necessary in aircraft produced before testing is completed.
Production had already been slowed twice. Then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates pushed back the building of 122 aircraft in February 2010 as problems became apparent, and again in January as he lowered near-term production for another 124 planes, boosting future production needs.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took the Senate floor on Dec. 15 and described the F-35 fighter program as “a mess.”
What upset the senator was not just that the cost of each plane had risen nearly 100 percent from its original estimate of $69 million to $133 million today, or the fact that testing was only 20 percent complete while more than 90 planes had already been bought, or the fact that software — key to 80 percent of the stealth plane’s warfighting capability — wouldn’t be ready for another four years.
It was, he said, that the Pentagon had “sold this program as a fifth-generation strike fighter that would — more so than any other major defense procurement program — be cost-effectively developed, procured, operated and supported.” ...
Well, I was gonna say, now that it's closed people will also come up with the argument of the expenses of reopening the line. But then again, I believe the production line is really just being mouthballed. Something not seen too often when production of a jet ceases.
So maybe someone left a small opportunity there for the future.
Maybe some more of the Raptor stuff will make it's way into the Eagle force to keep it up to speed for the air dominance role. But besides the APG-63 (V)3 sadly it won't be that much I guess.
Towards the primary topic: There's an article on the subject by the washington post hinting towards exspected extra costs in the future when all the planes being already ordered & built might need expensive upgrades, to incooperate what ongoing testing is still to reveal.
F-35 production a troubling example of Pentagon spending
By Walter Pincus,
There are 56 F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters being assembled at Lockheed Martin’s facility in Fort Worth. But because only 20 percent of the testing for the most advanced fighter-bomber in U.S. history is completed, each will probably have to get million-dollar-or-more fixes later.
The F-35 is already the most costly U.S. weapons program underway at about $385 billion. But that figure may go higher with overrun of the per-plane contract price for the 56 craft being assembled — along with the future multimillion-dollar fixes likely to be required for them — and the 15 F-35s completed but not yet delivered to the military services.
The plane is being built with the most sophisticated stealth technology, but initial flight tests have turned up hot spots and cracks associated with metal and composites used on most new aircraft. The development of the software controlling the F-35’s major warfighting functions, the most complex ever planned for an airplane, has been delayed so that the last block will not be introduced to the aircraft until at least June 2015.
Earlier this month, Vice Adm. David J. Venlet, executive officer for the F-35 program, said in an interview with the online service AOL that he recommended slowing down current production lines to reduce the replacement costs that will be necessary in aircraft produced before testing is completed.
Production had already been slowed twice. Then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates pushed back the building of 122 aircraft in February 2010 as problems became apparent, and again in January as he lowered near-term production for another 124 planes, boosting future production needs.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took the Senate floor on Dec. 15 and described the F-35 fighter program as “a mess.”
What upset the senator was not just that the cost of each plane had risen nearly 100 percent from its original estimate of $69 million to $133 million today, or the fact that testing was only 20 percent complete while more than 90 planes had already been bought, or the fact that software — key to 80 percent of the stealth plane’s warfighting capability — wouldn’t be ready for another four years.
It was, he said, that the Pentagon had “sold this program as a fifth-generation strike fighter that would — more so than any other major defense procurement program — be cost-effectively developed, procured, operated and supported.” ...
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re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread
Prior to the last few F-22s were made the Lockheed Martin made recording documents and videos in every single pieces in the assembly line and interview each worker and engineer at the station as to how the plane was put together. So in case the US needs more F-22 for whatever reason they can rely on these recordings as to how to construct it again without a relearning curve of sort.
Prior to the last few F-22s were made the Lockheed Martin made recording documents and videos in every single pieces in the assembly line and interview each worker and engineer at the station as to how the plane was put together. So in case the US needs more F-22 for whatever reason they can rely on these recordings as to how to construct it again without a relearning curve of sort.