F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Some of things you said are true, but currently they are struggling to reach IOC on F-35.

Actually, they are not "struggling." They are proceeding at a very measured and set pace, and making very measured progress towards that goal...which is a goal for three different variants of the aircraft.

It is very new technology, and though they are using existing weapons to begin with, interfacing them into the new technology situational awareness that the F-35 brings to the table is not an easy or quick task.

They don't want to use all of the weapons, just some of most basic ones that they already use on other planes. All of those weapons use standard interfaces so they could be used on various platforms. F-35 sensors (of course) use those same interfaces so integration should not be such a dramatic problem .

THis is the same for all new aircraft. They start with a basic set of weapons and move forward from there.

As I said, the sensors and the sensor suite on the F-35 is a far more complicated and advanced situational awreness system than any other aircraft yet produced, so interfacing even existing weapons into the aircraft to take advantage of that is more complex and more difficult that you might imagine.

For internal bays they could just copy F-22 code.

No, they cannot. They are completely different systems.

As for guns, how hard that could be ? USAF already used so many variations, both internal and in pods .

Guns are less difficult...but again, they are not intergrating them into an existing suite of sensors, they are integrating them into a far newer, cutting edge situational awareness suite of sensors. So they are going to be very measured about it, very careful, and do all they can to take full advantge of all of those new capabilities, even at short range.

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I don't understand these software problems. (obviously!)

Eh, Eh, Eh, oh course you don't????? oh Chief, come on, its not that simple, why I stated its a Very Smart airplane, think of it as a "baby" airplane, and as it grows up, it will get much, much, smarter. It is obscenely expensive for this very reason, all of those sensors have to "fuse" or work together, and you are quite right, it does fly very well, but now it has to learn to "talk" and "fight", once this aeroplane is mature, it will be able to launch weapons off of other platforms etc.....

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

"For internal bays they could just copy F-22 code"
F22 has three internal bays the large Main bay for AMMRAM, located under the fuselage and the duel sidewinder bays mounted under the wing roots. F35 has two internal weapons bays mounted under the fuselage on either side of the center line. The configuration and mission specs of those bays is not the same as those of the raptor.
additionally Lightning and Raptors think differently. F22's programming language is Ada83 a IBM based code no longer in use. Although the aircrafts hardware has been updated the program language is still vintage.
Lightning uses more common C and C++ code language with occasional applications of Ada83. That means its going to take a while to prosecute the software, as each of these three languages have to be considered.

 

[thunderchief]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Actually, they are not "struggling." They are proceeding at a very measured and set pace, and making very measured progress towards that goal...which is a goal for three different variants of the aircraft.

Fancy word for delays Btw, Washington Post confirmed the report :

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As I said, the sensors and the sensor suite on the F-35 is a far more complicated and advanced situational awreness system than any other aircraft yet produced, so interfacing even existing weapons into the aircraft to take advantage of that is more complex and more difficult that you might imagine.

All that talk about "situational awareness" and "sensor integration" looks like sales pitch and marketing trick to milk more money. F-35 doesn't have any new and revolutionary sensors . Granted, they are better then sensor on current aircraft but technology exists. Also, integrating information from various sources has been done before (Rafale,F-22, later Flankers etc .... ) . F-35 supposed to do that on whole new level, but for IOC it is enough to match capabilities of current planes .

 

[thunderchief]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

"For internal bays they could just copy F-22 code"
F22 has three internal bays the large Main bay for AMMRAM, located under the fuselage and the duel sidewinder bays mounted under the wing roots. F35 has two internal weapons bays mounted under the fuselage on either side of the center line. The configuration and mission specs of those bays is not the same as those of the raptor.
additionally Lightning and Raptors think differently. F22's programming language is Ada83 a IBM based code no longer in use. Although the aircrafts hardware has been updated the program language is still vintage.
Lightning uses more common C and C++ code language with occasional applications of Ada83. That means its going to take a while to prosecute the software, as each of these three languages have to be considered.

Ok , you are right, they cannot just copy the code

But, principle of solving the problem (algorithm if you will ) exists . Number and size of bays are just parameters in equation. Most important thing is to take orientation and velocity of the plane to determine "safe zone" for releasing weapons . They already figured that out for F-22 and we have videos of F-35 launching weapons from internal bays . There's gotta be something else and I hope they didn't screw up whole thing with those stupid touchscreen panels and software for them

 

[Air Force Brat]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Ok , you are right, they cannot just copy the code

But, principle of solving the problem (algorithm if you will ) exists . Number and size of bays are just parameters in equation. Most important thing is to take orientation and velocity of the plane to determine "safe zone" for releasing weapons . They already figured that out for F-22 and we have videos of F-35 launching weapons from internal bays . There's gotta be something else and I hope they didn't screw up whole thing with those stupid touchscreen panels and software for them

Okay Chief ThunderCloud, take that silk scarf and wipe the castor oil off your goggles and leather helmet, I know bd, Jeff, and the brat are antiques, but this is 2014, not 1914. You're starting to remind me of that flying Beagle on his dog house???? yes, yes, I know, Wilbur taught you how to fly, I know, uh-huh, but the big boys are burning Kerosene in their blow torches, un-huh, yeah those fighters........ 2014, yes I know you knew Eddie Rickenbacker, ok, ok, and Lindbergh!

 

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Fancy word for delays

No, they are words of reality. When you bring new technology to the fore, schedules almost always slip...because there is no model to base the schedule on.

It would be like me saying your words are just fancy words for naysaying. But I didn't say that, did I?

All that talk about "situational awareness" and "sensor integration" looks like sales pitch and marketing trick to milk more money.

Again, no, Thunder. It is a realistic description and explanation of what the capabilities of the aircraft entail, and what it is going to take to ensure that they are exploited.

Once again, you reveal your own rather significant bias with your own words. So?

And the sensors are better precisely because they are introducing new technology into the types of sensors that already exist, and then integrating them into real time networks and communication/command/control systems that have not been used before on any other attack/fighter. It's how the JSF is advancing existing state of the art to completely new levels.

 

[thunderchief]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Let's assume everything you said is true . Why can't they make first version of software without "situational awareness" and "sensor integration" , something on the level of current software for F-16, F-15 or F-18 ? And then declare IOC . We know that at least USMC would use those planes because they don't have other choice. Royal Navy too.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Let's assume everything you said is true . Why can't they make first version of software without "situational awareness" and "sensor integration" , something on the level of current software for F-16, F-15 or F-18 ? And then declare IOC . We know that at least USMC would use those planes because they don't have other choice. Royal Navy too.

They already have the F-16s, the F-15s, the F-18s, etc. that can do these things with the existing missiles in a very strong convetional sense. They are there and in place and will remain so until the F-35 is ready.

The issue with the F-35 is not just to be able to shoot these existing weapons and those that will be developed later. It is to integrate this stealth and very high degree of situational awareness, command and control that they will have into that picture. So they want at least some degree of that in the initial IOC. The intial IOC will be for a limited number of existing weapons with an intial capanbility with the sensor integration and stealth the aircraft brings.

That involves all of the testing of existing weapons that we have seen, but also the integration of those weapons into an environment where they can be much more effectively employed...with the ultimate goal of them being dramatically more effectively employed. So the testing and software fixes that allow them to do that at the same time they are developing the initial doctrines for it, is also involved...and taking time, as would be expected.

When they get where they are going, you are going to have each F-35 in effect being a very powerful, situationally aware and stealkthy AWACS aircraft in its own right, able to intergrate and operate the weapons systems and sensors of that individual aircraft and other aircraft all around it....in a stealthy way while in the fight. If it is pulled off, it will be a very amazing thing, and a very huge advantage in combat.

 

[bd popeye]

re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

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March 31, 2014 8:35 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The estimated acquisition cost of Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter jet program dropped $11.5 billion over the past year, the congressional Government Accountability Office reported Monday in its annual report on U.S. arms programs.

The congressional watchdog agency said it now estimates the Pentagon will spend $332.3 billion over coming decades to develop the new radar-evading F-35 jet and buy a total of 2,457 aircraft, about 3.3 percent less than last year's estimate.

The new estimate was provided in fiscal year 2014 dollars.

The U.S. Defense Department's current estimate for the cost of developing and buying the F-35 is $392 billion, measured in 2012 dollars, although that projection may change when the Pentagon releases its own updated annual report on the acquisition costs of major weapons programs in mid-April.

It was not immediately clear why the GAO's estimate for the acquisition cost of the Pentagon's biggest weapons program is so much lower than the government's own projection, and GAO officials were not immediately available to comment.

Lockheed is developing three models of the F-35 for the U.S. military and eight countries that helped fund its development: Britain, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Turkey, Italy and the Netherlands.

Israel and Japan have also placed orders, and South Korea this month said it also planned to buy the jet. Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp, builds the single engine that powers for the new warplane.

The GAO's annual report on the 80 biggest U.S. weapons programs said the reduction in the estimated cost of the F-35 program was due "solely to efficiencies found within the program" since there was no decrease in quantities.

The F-35 program was one of 50 major weapons programs that saw costs go down a combined $31 billion in 2013, the GAO report said. It said the remaining 30 weapons programs reported higher combined cost increases of $43.5 billion.

The GAO reported noted that the U.S. military had already spent about $35 billion to buy 150 F-35 aircraft. It cited improvements in production by Lockheed, the prime contractor, but said the program still faced challenges with software and potential design changes.

The GAO report said the cost to operate and maintain the aircraft is estimated at over $1 trillion over the next decades, but said those estimates may come down as testing progresses and more concrete information becomes available.

The Pentagon's F-35 program office estimates the overall cost of operating and maintaining the jets will be closer to $857 billion.

(Reporting by Andrea Shalal; Editing by Eric Walsh)