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535 & 536 are being refitted for export
Looks like the hulls are being stripped. How extensive are the refit work?
F-22P and 053 series
- Thread starter mehdi
- Start date
Looks like the hulls are being stripped. How extensive are the refit work?
kwaigonegin
Colonel
What are the specs for F23P ? how does it compare to the 054A?
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
actually there are no specs for F23P and even the name is not offical, it was just quoted by PN naval chief who stated that the next FFG from China will lie somewhere between current F22P and Type 054A, so somewhere in the middle
i just called it F23P because thats what was quoted in a interview, but i would have a list of thing that it is likely to contain mainly better air defence!
joshuatree
Captain
Somewhere in between could mean type 054 hull? That would be interesting not only because it means the end of 053 derivatives in the 2000-3000 ton range but it would mean first export sales of 054.
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Pakistan had invested in tech transfer to build the last F-22P locally, so I think there should be some push to utilize that capability to build additional ships. Although the F-22P is smaller than the 054A, I don't see why it can't be modified for HQ-16 and HQ-10 installations.
williamhou
Junior Member
He was talking about capability, not referring to buying 054 at all, as it is unlikely for China to sell an advanced warship currently active in PLAN without extensive modifications for export market.
joshuatree
Captain
Well Pakistan could buy 054 hulls built by China and then locally install the systems which they've learned via transfer. If you build with the F-22P hull and modify for HQ-16 and HQ-10, then you're suggesting something similar as they will need additional tech transfer on those systems if China allows it.
Buying an 054 hull is increasing capability as they are of higher tonnage. If I remember correctly, China offered 054 hulls to Thailand in a sales bid. Keep in mind, I suggested an 054 hull, not a full type 054A. But given the hulls are practically identical and the Chinese shipyards are still serial building, it may not be expensive for Pakistan at all to buy an 054 hull, have it sailed/towed back to Pakistan for their own fitting.
timepass
Brigadier
I believe OHPs are out of equation. There are rumors around PN that they are working on 3 possibilities currently with Chinese counterparts, which are:
1. Acquiring 2 more F22Ps.
2. Looking 4-6 New FFGs with displacement between 3300 - 3800.
3. New 6 SSKs, working have been started couple years back with Chinese counterparts when PN had scrapped Merlin & U214s.
Below are some possible images of future FFGs, posted on SDF earlier.
Since, type 21 are there till the end of this decade so the above is quite possible on soft loan basis from china & PN will have around 12 FFGs & 11 SSKs with now having decent aircover, the recently transfered SQDs from PAF duties to PN i.e. Mirage Vs/F7PGs & upcoming JF17s with ZDK03 based in Karachi PAF base Masroor.
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Yes by all accounts OHP deal is done, we are only going to get the single unit which by all accounts is a symbolic gesture hardly a war ready warship
I am hoping the Chinese SSK deal is working on LACM capability, maybe thats the reason why the German deal was cancelled at late stage because i know for a fact they were not able to do any modifications to launch a indigenous cruise missile, whereas the Chinese would not have such issues and could accommodate this capability if Pakistan puts it down in the specifications they are much more flexible with this sort of thing , integrating a Pakistani cruise missiles on a Chinese SSK wouldnt be as hard as doing it on a Western SSK, on Western system it would be a nightmare if not at all posssible due to all the string attached
having say 3 SSK with Babur cruise missiles capability and say 3 more SSK in the standard configuration would be possible
and lastly the iceing on the cake would be to have Babur cruise missiles launch from SSK with nuclear capability, that would be a first, can you imagine a Pakistani submarine sailing somewhere in the Indian Ocean carrying live nuclear weapons, deterrance at its best!
I am hoping the Chinese SSK deal is working on LACM capability, maybe thats the reason why the German deal was cancelled at late stage because i know for a fact they were not able to do any modifications to launch a indigenous cruise missile, whereas the Chinese would not have such issues and could accommodate this capability if Pakistan puts it down in the specifications they are much more flexible with this sort of thing , integrating a Pakistani cruise missiles on a Chinese SSK wouldnt be as hard as doing it on a Western SSK, on Western system it would be a nightmare if not at all posssible due to all the string attached
having say 3 SSK with Babur cruise missiles capability and say 3 more SSK in the standard configuration would be possible
and lastly the iceing on the cake would be to have Babur cruise missiles launch from SSK with nuclear capability, that would be a first, can you imagine a Pakistani submarine sailing somewhere in the Indian Ocean carrying live nuclear weapons, deterrance at its best!
timepass
Brigadier
Yes indeed plus PN have extensive experience in handling the modern SSKs warfare since they have Augusta 90Bs plus they had quite extensive study on Merlin & U214s basically they know if not all majority of in & out of that EU babies.
Facility of tailoring things was prompt PN to move to Chinese with no strings & comfortable mode of payments. IMO, BABUR should be on board on all coming 6 SSKs otherwise there was no reason to scrap U214s.
Facility of tailoring things was prompt PN to move to Chinese with no strings & comfortable mode of payments. IMO, BABUR should be on board on all coming 6 SSKs otherwise there was no reason to scrap U214s.