F-22P and 053 series

Word is that 2 ships will be built in China, and 2 in Pakistan:



With the previous order, 3 ships were built in China and 1 in Pakistan. I was wondering back then why Pakistan would be content with only building 1 ship, after investing in the purchase and tech transfer.

adeptitus said:

Word is that 2 ships will be built in China, and 2 in Pakistan:

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With the previous order, 3 ships were built in China and 1 in Pakistan. I was wondering back then why Pakistan would be content with only building 1 ship, after investing in the purchase and tech transfer.

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simply because Pakistan needed the FFGs in short time and Karachi shipyard under ToT can in no way do such fast delivery, Chinas shipyards pumped 3 FFGs in no time whereas Karachi took ages to launch the final and 4th ship, its all in the delivery time

ToT is good because chances are sooner or later theres going to be a war, and a damaged or crippled F22P cant be sailed all the way back to China for repair, we can do it dockside in our own country

same deal was for Agosta 90B, 2 built by French last one in Karachi, for same reason, so we can fix them and get them back out to fight another day in the middle of a war if needs be, again same for Azmat Class and all our purchases

A Unidentified Ship For Export Spotted

A.Man said:

A Unidentified Ship For Export Spotted

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Looks like a modified Azmat class with different bow and aft guns.

wasnt that for Bangladesh?

yes, this is for Bangladesh, not related to this thread.

A.man, please don't just randomly post everything you see on hsh.

Back to the F-22P, and apologies in advance for a stupid question.

What exactly is PN's F-22P strategy vis-a-vis India Navy? The class isn't all that strong on ASW, and is almost helpless against the kinds of aircraft Indian Navy and AF could bring to bear. Why not go with more specialized ships for ASW and for AAW.

Blackstone said:

Back to the F-22P, and apologies in advance for a stupid question.

What exactly is PN's F-22P strategy vis-a-vis India Navy? The class isn't all that strong on ASW, and is almost helpless against the kinds of aircraft Indian Navy and AF could bring to bear. Why not go with more specialized ships for ASW and for AAW.

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Blackstone, not sure if you're aware but the type of question you ask can quickly escalate into nonsensical arguments and unnecesary conflicts... thus should be avoided. Pakistan vs India type leading questions are generally discouraged because we know the thread can quickly move into uncharted waters ... no pun intended...but since you're sincere in your question, my guess would be the biggest factor being cost.

I'm sure the Pakistan Navy (or any other navy for that matter) would purchase dedicated AAW, ASW vessels if they have unlimited defense budget but then reality hits and they have to compromise and play the cost/capability/numbers game. Also having a dedicated ASW/AAW ship capital means you're moving into the large frigate/destroyer class which would be a waste since the F-22 is made more for patrol and brown water type operations which is what the Pakistan Navy needs.

From a geographic standpoint if India and Pakistan ever goes to war, odds are the aerial war would be fought mostly over land and not sea and I will LEAVE it at that.

Kwaigonegin, good point on topics that can get out of hand quickly, so I'll limit those in the future.

nothing wrong with asking a military related question or strategy

F22P gives PN a new reasonably well equipped all round surface combatant, it is not strong in any particular field but does provide significant capability’s over previous generation of ships, more importantly it also provides a platform which will be upgraded in future with likes of FL-3000N, a more advanced re-loadable SAM, powerful hull based sonar, UAV, etc etc

A TAS is not favourable to Arabian Sea conditions close to Pakistan shores because PN already did research into this and salinity/temperatures and conditions makes TAS not a worthwhile investment

In addition with a Z9 anti-submarine helo and the capability to link to the FFG, F22P does have reasonable offensive capability

What will it do in time of war? Well it certainly will not be sailing out into deep oceans far from friendly shores and engaging Indian Navy in open water, they will be operated solely and independently, but within air coverage hopefully

The limitation in the F22P when compared with advanced Indian FFG and DDGs is nullified when you see the likes of ZDK-03 stationed at PAF Base Masroor (near Karachi) where a squadron of soon to be JF17 will be stationed equipped with air launched anti-ship missiles, also there are shored based battery’s equipped with anti-ship missiles, mainly C-802

This AWACS + JF-17 (C-802) combination is really the asset that Pakistan will be relying on to counter the Indian Navy, fast jets that can fire from a stand-off distance long range missiles, to any modern navy will see havoc not to mentioned likes of the air launched Babur cruise missile which is operational too

PN fleet will be held tight, a high guard for defence, the flexible air component will act as the offence, where it can swing around the Indian Navy and sweep in hitting hard and fast, a single naval squadrons of JF-17 can launch over 30 x C-802 missiles, even (in the very unlikely scenario) if 15-20% get through that’s 5-6 missiles minimum, enough to cripple or damage 2-3 Indian surface vessel and that is in a single wave, the naval squadrons are very highly trained max sortie rates and can be turned around to go again day/night

Therefore the need for a Type 054A FFG is really not there as the strategy will be the same