F-22 Raptor Thread

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Rag Lakenheath my old AF base had F111 when I was yhere

Right, IIRC the F-111s that flew the raid in response to the 747 bombing over Lockerbie, originated out of Lakenheath? I've forgotten more than I remember, I believe the F-15s are based at Lakenheath.
 

Brumby

Major
House Lawmakers Want Air Force to Study Restarting F-22 Production

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Republicans on a key defense committee in the U.S. House of Representatives want the
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to study the cost of restarting production of the
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fighter jet.

The House Armed Services Committee’s Tactical Air and Land Forces Subcommittee, headed by Rep. Mike Turner, a Republican from Ohio, on Tuesday proposed legislation that would direct Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James "to conduct a comprehensive assessment and study of the costs associated with resuming production of F-22 aircraft," according to a copy of the bill
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.

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates in 2009 had famously led the charge to stop production of the F-22 Raptor, a fifth-generation stealth fighter made by Lockheed Martin Corp., after 187 aircraft were produced at a cost of $67 billion. (The last aircraft was delivered in 2012.)

In his 2014 memoirs, "Duty," Gates noted that former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley and former Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne had repeatedly lobbied him to support funding for a new stealth bomber or more F-22s, even though at the time the U.S. was engaged in irregular warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Nearly every time Moseley and Air Force Secretary Mike Wynne came to see me, it was about a new bomber or more F-22s," he wrote. "Both were important capabilities for the future, but neither would play any part in the wars we were already in."

Lawmakers and Pentagon officials have since noted with alarm the improving air defenses of countries such as Russia and China.

Last fall, Gen. Frank Gorenc, the Air Force’s commander in Europe, said Russia’s development of new surface-to-air missile systems and other air defenses has "
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" between U.S. air superiority.

Russia in recent years has deployed an increasing number of higher quality air defense systems, particularly in and around Kaliningrad and Crimea to limit the ability of U.S. and NATO aircraft to enter its airspace, according to Air Force Gen. Frank Gorenc, the service's European commander.

"I don't think it's controversial to say that they've closed the gap in capability -- not just in Europe, everywhere," he said during a Sept. 15 speech at the Air and Space Conference, held near Washington, D.C., and organized by the Air Force Association.

The Russians have multiple surface-to-air missiles systems designed to target high-altitude aircraft, from the S-400, arguably the most advanced such system in the world, to the S-75A Dvina, which in 1960 was employed to shoot down an American-made
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as it traveled over Soviet airspace.

China, meanwhile, has recently deployed fighter jets -- reportedly 16 Shenyang J-11 advanced fighter aircraft -- and HQ-9 surface-to-air missile batteries to Woody Island in the South China Sea as part of an ongoing military buildup there.

"In light of growing threats to U.S. air superiority as a result of adversaries closing the technology gap and increasing demand from allies and partners for high performance, multi-role aircraft to meet evolving and worsening global security threats, the committee believes that such proposals are worthy of further exploration," the House Republicans wrote in the proposed legislation.

The language also notes that Air Combat Command has a stated requirement for 381 F-22s and that the initial program objective called for producing a total of 749 aircraft.

The bill would require James to review anticipated future air superiority capacity and capability requirements, estimated costs to restart F-22 production, factors impacting such costs, historical lessons from past aircraft production restarts, and any other matters the secretary deems relevant, according to the proposal.

A report on the findings would be due to lawmakers by Jan. 1.

The proposal, part of the annual defense authorization legislation, is far from becoming reality. Senators on the counterpart panel would need to support the measure -- as would both chambers and the president -- before the secretary would be required to carry it out.

In hindsight, the Iraq war cost the US probably $2 Trillion and the focus away from conventional warfare. This could have funded all the F-22's needed and with plenty left to spare.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Well here again, I hate to say it, and contrary to all these nattering nabobs, who insisted USAF did not want the Raptor, Bob Gates has confessed that they continued to lobby and beg him to save the F-22, but Bob was too dumb to listen to USAF, Cheney and Rummy are guilty too!, but the death-blow was struck by non other than that famous socialist Barack Hussein Obama.

anyway, I told you so, an there is NOT nor has their ever been any concrete break through six gen technology, in fact six gen is a headless snake???

but, I'm gonna say it, "I told you so"! they better get very serious about getting those babies back on line, the F-35 as good as it is, lacks several effective tools in the warfare of the future, that the designers of the F-22 had the foresight to incorporate.

I would install two F-135s, and I would also forget the OVT, and add internal fuel!
 

dtulsa

Junior Member
I can't say any better hindsight is always 20/20 we simple can not have enough of the 22 as I posted earlier it could be developed into some thing like the F15E a very potent aircraft indeed dual role and all
 
in case you haven't seen it yet Here’s the Proposal to Study Restarting the F-22 Production Line
The idea of restarting the F-22 production line gained some traction on Tuesday when Republicans on the House Armed Services Committee included a provision to study the issue in a draft version of the annual defense authorization bill.

I imagine thousands of employees at Lockheed Martin Corp., maker of the stealthy fifth-generation fighter, collectively perking up from behind their desks. After all, the Bethesda, Maryland-based company and world’s largest defense contractor cranked out 187 of the twin-engine fighters at its production line in Marietta, Georgia, to the tune of some $67 billion.

Of course, that came to a sudden halt after then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates in 2009 pushed to stop production of the aircraft in part to shift funding toward weapons and equipment needed for the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. (The final aircraft was delivered a few years later in 2012.)

I wrote
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about the panel’s F-22 proposal over at Military.com.

Meantime, here’s a copy of the language included in
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, or mark-up, released by panel’s Tactical Air and Land Forces Subcommittee, headed by Rep. Mike Turner, a Republican from Ohio:

F-22 production restart assessment

The committee notes that production of the F-22 fifth-generation tactical aircraft concluded in 2009, and notes 187 aircraft were produced, far short of the initial program objective of 749 aircraft, as well as the Air Combat Command’s stated requirement of 381 aircraft. The committee also understands there has been interest within the Department of the Air Force, Department of Defense, and Congress in potentially restarting production of the F-22 aircraft. In light of growing threats to U.S. air superiority as a result of adversaries closing the technology gap and increasing demand from allies and partners for high-performance, multi-role aircraft to meet evolving and worsening global security threats, the committee believes that such proposals are worthy of further exploration.

Therefore, the committee directs the Secretary of the Air Force to conduct a comprehensive assessment and study of the costs associated with resuming production of F-22 aircraft and provide a report to the congressional defense committees, not later than January 1, 2017, on the findings of this assessment. The committee expects the report to be unclassified, but may contain a classified annex. Further, the committee directs that the assessment and report consider and address the following:

(1) Anticipated future air superiority capacity and capability requirements, based on anticipated near-term and mid-term threat projections, both air and ground; evolving F-22 missions and roles in anti-access/area-denial environments; 27 F-15C retirement plans and service-life extension programs; estimated next-generation aircraft initial operating capability dates; and estimated end-of-service timelines for existing F-22As;

(2) Estimated costs to restart F-22 production, including the estimated cost of reconstituting the F-22 production line, and the time required to achieve low-rate production; the estimated cost of procuring another 194 F-22 aircraft to meet the requirement for 381 aircraft; and the estimated cost of procuring sufficient F-22 aircraft to meet other requirements or inventory levels that the Secretary may deem necessary to support the National Security Strategy and address emerging threats;

(3) Factors impacting F-22 restart costs, including the availability and suitability of existing F-22A production tooling; the estimated impact on unit and total costs of altering the total buy size and procuring larger and smaller quantities of aircraft; and opportunities for foreign export and partner nation involvement if section 8118 of the Defense Appropriations Act, 1998 (Public Law 105-56) prohibiting export of the F-22 were repealed;

(4) Historical lessons from past aircraft production restarts; and

(5) Any others matters that the Secretary deems relevant.
source:
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Zool

Junior Member
Its an insert into the bill by Reps Marc Veasey & Hank Johnson who would like to see a F-22 restart due to program work share in their districts. Just politics. Nothing is going to come of it.
 
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