airsuperiority
Captain
Re: Question about F-15 lethality and potentials of modification
can someone move this to the f-15 thread too?
can someone move this to the f-15 thread too?
F-15 Eagle Thread
- Thread starter airsuperiority
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thunderchief
Senior Member
Using your logic , how do you propose to cut frontal RCS from ~10 sqm to level comparable to F-35 without redesigning inlets , applying serrations , redesigning reflection surfaces to reflect EM waves away from enemy radar etc ... "Super secret material" won't be offered on either F-15SE or export F-35 . That is why frontal RCS of F-15SE would be somewhere between 0.1 and 1 sqm , and RCS of export F-35 would be between 0.1 and 0.01 sqm - according to this hypothesis .
Actually , all exporting nations usually create export models of weapons with sensitive technologies removed . For example , do you think that Egyptian F-16s are same as those used by USAF ? It is not dishonest if you notify your buyers what they could get and what they could not get , as I'm certain they did with South Koreans and that is why they selected F-15SE instead of F-35 .
As for my source , he is not source at all
- he is just a random guy on internet speculating about F-15SE and F-35 like we do . He is not official so his opinion is good as yours and mine .
The US is not providing watered down F-35s to any of the partner nations. For those nations, that was part of the deal when they invested so much money into the development of the program.Actually , all exporting nations usually create export models of weapons with sensitive technologies removed. It is not dishonest if you notify your buyers what they could get and what they could not get, as I'm certain they did with South Koreans and that is why they selected F-15SE instead of F-35 .
As for my source , he is not source at all
As to South Korea, I doubt that their aircraft were going to be "watered down," either. The F-15K Slam Eagles they have, in many ways were better than the US F-15E Eagles at the time. In fact, the US is upgrading its F-15E aircraft to include many of those changes.
So, I expect that the issue with South Korea was completely related to the TCOO (total cost of ownership) and they weighed the significant differences between new buy F-35s and the training, maintaining, and the logistical train they would have to put in place to support the F-35, while they still supported their new F-15Ks, versus the cost of the new F-15SE which they could maintain and train for a whole lot cheaper. They had a hard number that the program had to come in at and the F-35 could not meet that number...so it was removed from the competition.
I believe they will do just fine with the F-15SE and expect there will be other awards for that aircraft as well.
As to the F-35, I expect it will a huge number of wins over they years, particularly as its price continues to fall. In fact, I expect the overall F-35 program, over the next 25 years, will be the most highly exported and manufactured western aircraft since the F-16...and that is understandable since the F-16 is by far and away the largest group of aircraft that the F-35 is slated to replace
thunderchief
Senior Member
Correct me if I'm wrong , but South Korea didn't participate in the in the F-35 program (i.e. they didn't spend any money on R&D) .
Equation
Lieutenant General
True, but that doesn't mean the US will offer the South Koreans a water down F-15SE. The F-15SE is primary role to avoid DPRK SAMs and fighters (engage and defeat if possible depending on mission) as they will try to take out as many ground artillery units as possible because that's the North Korean main beef of it's ground forces.
You are absolutely correct, and I never said they had.
That's why I differentiated them from those partners after mentioning them by saying, "As to South Korea, I doubt that their aircraft were going to be "watered down," either."
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
my answer. Would be to modify the existing intake ramps. F15series uses a moveable external ramp mounted on the top of her engine intake I would remove that assembly which is not fixed as part of the fuselage and replace it with a assembly that externally resembles the old one but is in fact fixed. And at its bottom would be a slightly angled ramp. If you look at the video cgi I posted it shows the se flying but the ramps don't move. Sense the ramp would always be at say a some where around ~30* a enemy radar would have to be at a inside a certain angle at a certain distance to catch the reflection. Its not a full s duct but more like a semi it angles the intake downward.
I think Boeing tried something similar on the x32 which was intended for stealth and because Boeing mounted the engine so far forward could never have a s duct.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Whole point of having intake ramps is that they have to move depending on the speed of aircraft to ensure steady supply of air to engine . Now , there are some designs with fixed intake ramps and good example is Mig-27 (fixed ramp) vs Mig-23 (moveable ramp) . That is why Mig-27 engine although basically same (R-29) doesn't have same power as Mig-23 engine and Mig-27 speed at altitude is significantly lower then Mig-23 . Now , Mig-27 is ground-attack plane so this doesn't matter so much . But , same thing would have happened with F-15SE which is a fighter and that is not acceptable .
Also , even if they do what you propose , RCS would not be altered significantly - air intake ramp could not cover whole inlet . Not to mention that there are many other places which create RCS not just engine inlets .
Btw , here is relatively complex system of F-15's intake ramps :
Using your logic , how do you propose to cut frontal RCS from ~10 sqm to level comparable to F-35 without redesigning inlets , applying serrations , redesigning reflection surfaces to reflect EM waves away from enemy radar etc ... "Super secret material" won't be offered on either F-15SE or export F-35 . That is why frontal RCS of F-15SE would be somewhere between 0.1 and 1 sqm , and RCS of export F-35 would be between 0.1 and 0.01 sqm - according to this hypothesis .
Actually , all exporting nations usually create export models of weapons with sensitive technologies removed . For example , do you think that Egyptian F-16s are same as those used by USAF ? It is not dishonest if you notify your buyers what they could get and what they could not get , as I'm certain they did with South Koreans and that is why they selected F-15SE instead of F-35 .
As for my source , he is not source at all
If you,re quoting him, he is your source, name and forum so we can make our own judgement, however his/your hypothesis is bogus, and just an attempt to engender questions, where there are none, actually hurting your own credibility. Now I love your avatar, so I'm attempting to bring you up to speed, but when we are discussing why the F-15SE was choosen over the more stealthy and highly sophisticated F-35, its money, pure and simple, possibly the South Koreans prefer NOT to tick off the neighbors, by purchasing the F-35 STRIKE fighter, an offensive weapon, and intimating that we would sell an "adulterated" F-35 to the South Koreans, implys some dishonesty, all F-35s will be fully mission capable, and include the various weapons systems native to the purchaser, at their discretion, but the beauty of the partner system is that everyone gets a very potent bird. This deal is not a done deal yet, and South Korea may yet purchase the F-35. brat