Expo-2010, The Showcase of China! Is China Going To Lead The World?

bladerunner said:

Someone should provide a bit of balance when you stat reading crap like this:
Blomberg reckons BYD are the 8th most innovative company in the world, ahead of the likes of Ford,Honda, BMW.Fiat, Tata, and more
ttp://chinabizgov.blogspot.com/2010/04/8th-most-innovative-company-in-world.html

This week's Bloomberg Business Week contains the results of their annual "Most Innovative Company" survey, conducted in cooperation with Boston Consulting Group. (A sortable list of the top 50 can be found here.)

The number eight company on this list this year was a bit of a surprise to me: BYD, the automaker from Shenzhen. While it doesn't surprise me at all that the number of Chinese companies on this list should increase (from only one last year to four this year), I was shocked to see BYD at number eight -- with a bullet -- and ahead of the likes of GE, Sony, Samsung and Intel.

Among auto companies, only Toyota ranks above BYD at number five. (The survey was conducted last December before the extent of Toyota's current woes became known.) Behind BYD are Ford (13), VW (15), Tata (17 - also a bit of a surprise from the Indian automaker), BMW (18), Hyundai (22), Honda (26) and Fiat (43).

So why should BYD be ranked so highly its first time on this list? Is it because BYD makes the highest selling sedan in China? Hardly. The F3, though a hot seller, is basically a copy of a Toyota Corolla. And based on feedback from a number of auto journalists, a very poor copy at that. In all fairness, however, those same journalists credit BYD for great improvement since it entered the car business in 2003

s it because BYD is the leading Chinese manufacturer of electric and hybrid vehicles? Perhaps. The plug-in hybrid version of the F3 (the F3DM) was announced to much fanfare back in December of 2008 as the world's first production plug-in hybrid. BYD had beaten the Japanese, the Americans and the Europeans to market. The only problem was, no one could actually buy one.

As of last August, only a few hundred had been sold, and only to fleet purchasers such as the local government of Shenzhen. Supposedly, consumers are finally, as of this month, able to buy the F3DM, but as even Business Week admits, it comes with a $24,900 pricetag. The regular version of the F3 only goes for about $9,000. (Why buy a Corolla for $19K when you can get a look-alike for $9K? Why buy a look alike-hybrid for $25K when you can get the real thing for $19K?)

And even if Chinese consumers had been able to buy the F3DM as early as December 2008, how exactly is a plug-in hybrid innovative? The Toyota Prius, a hybrid of the non-plug-in variety has been available in Japan since 1999. And nearly every car company in the world now has some variety of electric and/or plug-in hybrid in the works, most using the same lithium-ion battery technology.

I am not saying that BYD is not an innovative company. In fact, from what I have learned talking to current and former BYD employees, the company's internal philosophy is all about innovation -- learning, experimenting, finding new ways to do things. And it is because of this that I really want to see BYD succeed in its mission. What I am saying, however, is that, for all their innovative talk, they have still produced very little beyond a hot-selling copy of a gasoline car and a hybrid version that is still untested by the driving public.

Isn't ranking BYD high on a list of innovators sort of like handing out a Nobel Peace Prize to someone because he talks a lot about peace? Let us hope that both peacemakers, and innovative carmakers, can live up to their reputations.

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solarz said:

You must have a time machine or something, to have visited the expo already!

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Sorry, the first transistor radio was made by Americans.

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VWalkman: a miniature cassette player. Very useful, yes, but hardly an "original" idea.

Rice Cooker: oh boy, if only you had any idea of the number of cooking gadgets there are in China...

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siegecrossbow said:

Just because people on the board are biased towards China (well this is a Chinese Defence Forum right?) doesn't mean that you have to start spewing biases as well. I'm just saying that we should keep the tones of our discussions respectful even if we are critiquing someone else.

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bladerunner said:

I was referring to date.

There are many Trade Exhibitions held in China and throughout the world, that get reviewed and commented on certainly more than enough to form a rough idea where China's at.
From past experience many concept things will be displayed, but past evidence has shown many things are developed in tandem with other countries.

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Wiki acknowledges that but goes on to say

"In August 1955, still a small company named Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo, Ltd. (Tokyo Telecommunications Engineering Corporation), Ibuka and Morita introduced their own five-transistor radio into the U.S. market, the TR-55, under the new brand name Sony.[9] With its release, Sony became the first company to manufacture a radio from the transistors on up, and to utilize all miniature components. "

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The Rice Cooker is Iconic and Id hardly classify it as a gadget, but more as a increassingly indespensible cooking utensil for the modern home.. , it certainly made it easier to cook rice, and made it more redily acceptible as a food item , in the Western world.Gadgets are something one doest really need.

Another product the Japanese did during that period was to Improve the rotary engineeg> Mazda.

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bladerunner said:

And even if Chinese consumers had been able to buy the F3DM as early as December 2008, how exactly is a plug-in hybrid innovative? The Toyota Prius, a hybrid of the non-plug-in variety has been available in Japan since 1999. And nearly every car company in the world now has some variety of electric and/or plug-in hybrid in the works, most using the same lithium-ion battery technology.

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solarz said:

Your statement is problematic on so many levels. What trade exhibitions are you referring to? What relation do they have with the Expo? What criteria do you use to define "innovative" vs "copies"?

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Just as the Olympics is the grandaddy of all the world championships held as one spectacular event then so is "EXPO" the culmination of all trade shows. The difference with trade shows is that a some of them arent open to the general public.

Since China is into consumer electronics, "The International Consumers Electronics Show" held every Jan is one such event. Its the Biggy of all electronic shows. Over the the years things like, Microsoft Media Centre, Blue Ray,HD DVD, 3D: Phillips portable display whose screen can display an image for months without any power,were first introduced there and in 2010 the Intel Infoscope which blew peoples socks off, debut there.

I just don't recall anything from China getting much of a wrap at the event, but doesn't mean they wont have some interesting things on show.

Tata demonstrates innovation maybe the electric bikes that people in China can be described as such, but for much of the time, its just an incremental improvement.

Copy can be cheap knockoffs, or in the case of BYD copying Toyota's 2008 Corolla, where the object is to save hundreds of millions by not having to pay a design and research team. changing the shape of the grille or bumper are merely cosmetic changes to avoid complete similarity.

So they made a better version. By the same logic as the one you used to criticize BYD: not all that innovative.

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Actually the article was written by G E Anderson. My link had a mistake.

My reason for posting it, is because I thought sooner or later someone was gonna post the original Blomberg list and go into raputures with this wow "go China" stuff.

Like Anderson I have no problem with BYD being given huge Wraps but it hasnt really achieved much really, IMO a lot of its just Hype

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bladerunner said:

OK, Ill try to be more diplomatic in my criticisms

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Tata demonstrates innovation maybe the electric bikes that people in China can be described as such, but for much of the time, its just an incremental improvement.

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bladerunner said:

Since China is into consumer electronics, "The International Consumers Electronics Show" held every Jan is one such event. Its the Biggy of all electronic shows. Over the the years things like, Microsoft Media Centre, Blue Ray,HD DVD, 3D: Phillips portable display whose screen can display an image for months without any power,were first introduced there and in 2010 the Intel Infoscope which blew peoples socks off, debut there.

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